This was actually considered a safe area for bicyclists with a bike lane and wide road...just goes to show that you never know <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif"><br><br>
Just Be Careful Out There
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mmoonptdeux
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Very sad <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif">
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Eek. How very very sad and horrible for everyone involved. <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif">
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So tragic. My heart goes out to the families and the surviving rider.
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1,852 Posts
Not surprising. A good friend of mine is a county sheriff. He fell asleep while driving home just after the end of his shift from being overworked. He had an inspection the previous evening, before his shift started. Due to the scheduling of the inspection, he had been up for almost 20 hours by the time he was done. He's lucky to be alive after suffering a broken back, pelvis, ribs, punctured lung and concussion. Just because the guy that hit the cyclists was at the beginning of his shift doesn't mean he hadn't already been working for several hours before his official shift started. So, those of you that are calling for the deputy's head, realize that it may not be all his fault.
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I don't give a rats ass if he was tired. He knew he was tired and could have called for a ride, turned his head and asked for a ride, or simply pulled over and slept in his car. As to how many hours he worked, poor baby had to work a bunch of hours. We don't even know if he was working, for all we know he could have been up all night looking at internet porn.<br><br><b><i>Is anybody in this world actually responsible for thier own actions?</i></b><br><br>
I hope the family sues the crap outa the state, the city and the perp. Then I hope they lock him up for manslauter - 2 counts and 1 count attempted manslauter.<br><br>
CS
I hope the family sues the crap outa the state, the city and the perp. Then I hope they lock him up for manslauter - 2 counts and 1 count attempted manslauter.<br><br>
CS
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1,852 Posts
Sheldon,<br>
Oh, I agree there should be some form of punishment, but it isn't just the deputy. IF he was overworked, everyone in the chain of command should face some kind of punishment. Yes, he was responsible for driving tired, but is there anyone who can honestly say that they haven't driven tired? I used to more than I care to admit, but I realized how stupid it is. Sometimes being tired sneaks up on you and I know that very well from personal experience. You can be driving along and everything is fine and all of a sudden you are nodding off. Many people will do this and continue to drive. Nothing is THAT important and now I do any one of the choices you suggested. It takes personal responsibility, and admitting that it isn't a show of toughness to keep driving when we really need the sleep. Many people haven't reached that point yet. I don't necessarily think he should be locked away forever. I don't know what punishment fits this tragedy.
Oh, I agree there should be some form of punishment, but it isn't just the deputy. IF he was overworked, everyone in the chain of command should face some kind of punishment. Yes, he was responsible for driving tired, but is there anyone who can honestly say that they haven't driven tired? I used to more than I care to admit, but I realized how stupid it is. Sometimes being tired sneaks up on you and I know that very well from personal experience. You can be driving along and everything is fine and all of a sudden you are nodding off. Many people will do this and continue to drive. Nothing is THAT important and now I do any one of the choices you suggested. It takes personal responsibility, and admitting that it isn't a show of toughness to keep driving when we really need the sleep. Many people haven't reached that point yet. I don't necessarily think he should be locked away forever. I don't know what punishment fits this tragedy.
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The punishment is locking him away for the rest of his life, or at least a good portion of it. He took the lives of 2 people due to nothing more than his own negligence. I agree, sleep deprivation can sneak up on you. I can't tell you how many times I have been driving and had to pull over or stop and spend the night in some dive hotel because I couldn't drive.<br><br>
The matter is simple. He was driving. He was in control (Or not in control as the case seems to have it.) of the vehicle. He should be held responsible, soley responsible. I don't care if they told him he had to drive like that, he is still responsible for his actions. He made the choice to drive, period.<br><br>
I may be a little biased because they were biking, but I am so tired of people getting a slap on the wrist for something like this. The lives of these 2 people are OVER. Done! The thrid will probably have along recvovery.<br><br>
Sorry for the rant.<br><br>
CS
The matter is simple. He was driving. He was in control (Or not in control as the case seems to have it.) of the vehicle. He should be held responsible, soley responsible. I don't care if they told him he had to drive like that, he is still responsible for his actions. He made the choice to drive, period.<br><br>
I may be a little biased because they were biking, but I am so tired of people getting a slap on the wrist for something like this. The lives of these 2 people are OVER. Done! The thrid will probably have along recvovery.<br><br>
Sorry for the rant.<br><br>
CS
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9,447 Posts
CS--rant is well deserved. As a sheriff, he should have KNOWN better. How many wrecks had he responded to due to a sleepy driver? He chose to drive. Hopefully it will come out if he was overworked/forced to work without adequate rest.<br><br>
Yes, I've driven tired. I stopped and walked around for a bit. I've put on head banging rock n' roll when the kids books on tape are putting me to sleep. When possible, I'll have someone else drive. Driving tired is just as bad as driving drunk.<br><br>
Along the bike path, there's a tree that's partly burned. A driver knew he was tired, but thought he could make it home. He didn't. He drove off the side of the road, crashing into a tree. His car caught fire and he wsa nearly burned to death. Sobering reminder every time I pass that tree.
Yes, I've driven tired. I stopped and walked around for a bit. I've put on head banging rock n' roll when the kids books on tape are putting me to sleep. When possible, I'll have someone else drive. Driving tired is just as bad as driving drunk.<br><br>
Along the bike path, there's a tree that's partly burned. A driver knew he was tired, but thought he could make it home. He didn't. He drove off the side of the road, crashing into a tree. His car caught fire and he wsa nearly burned to death. Sobering reminder every time I pass that tree.
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4,205 Posts
I had a friend run over from behind by a woman who may not have been paying atention, or who knows what. In the end, she was ticketed for something minor, his widow recovered a settlement from the insurance company and his kids have no dad. We all still miss our friend after 3 years, we had raced together since he was just a pup out of high school, but I see over and over if you kill or maim a pedestrian, very little happens, especially if the driver is sober.<br><br>
I'm more troubled when I see people share a belief that cyclists somehow have it coming for daring to ride on the road. I see it as an outgrowth of a self centered crybaby culture that values haste and self over community and dignity.<br><br>
I wrote this after his death:<br><br>
I remember the first time I met Jon, it must have been 1991, when we first moved back in the area. After all the years, and miles and races, the one thing Jon would always remember about our first encounter was the first time I qualified for Empires in Syracuse in 1991 and I asked Bob Deroo if we were supposed to ride in the aero bars for the team time trial. Jon would always get a chuckle out of that, and so started our time racing together that summer.<br><br>
When I look back over 15 years at who is left still racing bikes, the list is not very long. Jon was not only one of this small group that rode through over a decade and a half, he was one of the strongest. Jon stayed with it because he had a contagious love for the sport. No matter how dismal the weather, how difficult the race, Jon would always find the smallest glimmer of positive in the situation and ride right up to you in the middle of the pack in the driving rain and announce that his legs felt pretty good today or somesuch. I never heard Jon complain, not when his opportunity to race as a professional fell through, a disappointment which must have been so bitter for a young man who dreamed for years of that one chance. Never complained when he was working long hours as an iron worker and losing some of his fitness, never complaining when the responsibilities of a family kept him busy. Jon would throw a leg over the bike and do his best, when he was flying or when he was struggling, he was always positive, happy and genuinely interested in all of the faces and people connected with the sport.<br><br>
I have some memories of Jon over the years that make me laugh or cry:<br><br>
I remember Jon driving around in this Chevrolet Cavalier, possibly one of the worst cars ever made. True to form, Jon had nothing but positive things to say about it and proceeded to drive it all over the east coast to bike races.<br><br>
I remember when Jon snuck an air conditioner into Empire Games at Buffalo State.<br><br>
I remember the only time I recall Jon getting mad about something and it only lasted about an hour. Through some horseplay, Jon's fan got broken when we were at the Games in Albany. Losing your fan in those hot dorms was a big deal and the guilty parties attempted a repair with tire glue which lead to the fan flying apart in an mangled heap upon Jon's flipping the switch. He laughed about it the next day and for years after.<br><br>
I remember when Jon was starting out and he would make enough money for gas by weeding Mrs. Stookie's garden down the street when he lived in Rushville. I was able to visit there once, I remember his parents were such down to earth people living in this big farm house, his dad was this mountain of a man who worked in construction all his life and they kept these great big rotwiler dogs in the house.<br><br>
On a ride once from Wyoming county, we stopped by Jon's grandmother's house, which I'm thinking was in Stafford over on route 5. She kept giving us more cookies and filled up our water bottles for us, it was like we were the conquering heroes to be out riding in the cold. They were the nicest people and were so proud of their grandson, they just beamed.<br><br>
When I was staying home to raise my young son, Jon was sort of living down the road in East Betheny, I say sort of because he spent most of his week in Albany working at a job site and would commute home for the weekends. Every now and again, he would be home and would stop by on his way out for a ride, all professional looking in his Preferred Care kit with a clear plastic jacket stuffed in his back pocket just in case, heading out to attack the hills. He'd just stop by to say hello, not fill up his bottles or borrow some tools, just to say hello to Evan and I while we were loafing around the house reading Clifford. We were just guys who raced bikes together, but Jon would make a point to stop by for no reason, just because he could and that was the kind of guy he was.<br><br>
I remember when we raced together and won money, we'd give it all to Jon and maybe Wednesday the next week you'd get a check in the mailbox with your cut, plus a gasoline factor, calculated right to the penny.<br><br>
I remember riding back from a Giro race in Buffalo, talking with Jon about being a dad. I talked about how it changed my life and made me complete and Jon related that he had grown up in a house where his parents raised many foster children over the years, so parenting was just part of his life from the get go. I remember driving home thinking this guy has all the tools to be a great dad, I hope they have a bunch of kids- he has patience, is unflappable, has strong faith and brings happiness to others. What a great dad, I thought. This one makes me cry to write.<br><br>
For all of the great memories I have of this life cut too short, I have to close with a tremendous sadness I feel for the people who were left behind. To me, Jon was a guy that I bumped shoulders with on the weekends and shared a few laughs with in the parking lot. I am so very sad for my own loss, but I feel a larger sadness for those who knew him as a husband, father, son or grandson. In this life, Jon stepped up and did what was needed to be a good father and provider, so many miles we have traveled from the fresh faced kid I knew in 1991. God speed, my friend.
I'm more troubled when I see people share a belief that cyclists somehow have it coming for daring to ride on the road. I see it as an outgrowth of a self centered crybaby culture that values haste and self over community and dignity.<br><br>
I wrote this after his death:<br><br>
I remember the first time I met Jon, it must have been 1991, when we first moved back in the area. After all the years, and miles and races, the one thing Jon would always remember about our first encounter was the first time I qualified for Empires in Syracuse in 1991 and I asked Bob Deroo if we were supposed to ride in the aero bars for the team time trial. Jon would always get a chuckle out of that, and so started our time racing together that summer.<br><br>
When I look back over 15 years at who is left still racing bikes, the list is not very long. Jon was not only one of this small group that rode through over a decade and a half, he was one of the strongest. Jon stayed with it because he had a contagious love for the sport. No matter how dismal the weather, how difficult the race, Jon would always find the smallest glimmer of positive in the situation and ride right up to you in the middle of the pack in the driving rain and announce that his legs felt pretty good today or somesuch. I never heard Jon complain, not when his opportunity to race as a professional fell through, a disappointment which must have been so bitter for a young man who dreamed for years of that one chance. Never complained when he was working long hours as an iron worker and losing some of his fitness, never complaining when the responsibilities of a family kept him busy. Jon would throw a leg over the bike and do his best, when he was flying or when he was struggling, he was always positive, happy and genuinely interested in all of the faces and people connected with the sport.<br><br>
I have some memories of Jon over the years that make me laugh or cry:<br><br>
I remember Jon driving around in this Chevrolet Cavalier, possibly one of the worst cars ever made. True to form, Jon had nothing but positive things to say about it and proceeded to drive it all over the east coast to bike races.<br><br>
I remember when Jon snuck an air conditioner into Empire Games at Buffalo State.<br><br>
I remember the only time I recall Jon getting mad about something and it only lasted about an hour. Through some horseplay, Jon's fan got broken when we were at the Games in Albany. Losing your fan in those hot dorms was a big deal and the guilty parties attempted a repair with tire glue which lead to the fan flying apart in an mangled heap upon Jon's flipping the switch. He laughed about it the next day and for years after.<br><br>
I remember when Jon was starting out and he would make enough money for gas by weeding Mrs. Stookie's garden down the street when he lived in Rushville. I was able to visit there once, I remember his parents were such down to earth people living in this big farm house, his dad was this mountain of a man who worked in construction all his life and they kept these great big rotwiler dogs in the house.<br><br>
On a ride once from Wyoming county, we stopped by Jon's grandmother's house, which I'm thinking was in Stafford over on route 5. She kept giving us more cookies and filled up our water bottles for us, it was like we were the conquering heroes to be out riding in the cold. They were the nicest people and were so proud of their grandson, they just beamed.<br><br>
When I was staying home to raise my young son, Jon was sort of living down the road in East Betheny, I say sort of because he spent most of his week in Albany working at a job site and would commute home for the weekends. Every now and again, he would be home and would stop by on his way out for a ride, all professional looking in his Preferred Care kit with a clear plastic jacket stuffed in his back pocket just in case, heading out to attack the hills. He'd just stop by to say hello, not fill up his bottles or borrow some tools, just to say hello to Evan and I while we were loafing around the house reading Clifford. We were just guys who raced bikes together, but Jon would make a point to stop by for no reason, just because he could and that was the kind of guy he was.<br><br>
I remember when we raced together and won money, we'd give it all to Jon and maybe Wednesday the next week you'd get a check in the mailbox with your cut, plus a gasoline factor, calculated right to the penny.<br><br>
I remember riding back from a Giro race in Buffalo, talking with Jon about being a dad. I talked about how it changed my life and made me complete and Jon related that he had grown up in a house where his parents raised many foster children over the years, so parenting was just part of his life from the get go. I remember driving home thinking this guy has all the tools to be a great dad, I hope they have a bunch of kids- he has patience, is unflappable, has strong faith and brings happiness to others. What a great dad, I thought. This one makes me cry to write.<br><br>
For all of the great memories I have of this life cut too short, I have to close with a tremendous sadness I feel for the people who were left behind. To me, Jon was a guy that I bumped shoulders with on the weekends and shared a few laughs with in the parking lot. I am so very sad for my own loss, but I feel a larger sadness for those who knew him as a husband, father, son or grandson. In this life, Jon stepped up and did what was needed to be a good father and provider, so many miles we have traveled from the fresh faced kid I knew in 1991. God speed, my friend.
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7,463 Posts
That was touching John. Thanks for sharing.<br><br>
Many non-cyclists I know think I'm hypersensitive when I see other cyclists do asinine things. One of my coworkers broke his elbow and collarbone recently on his bike. No car involved. He was just stupid and impatient, not wanting to ride one more block to turn back off a one way street to go the other way. Instead, he decided to ride the wrong way down the bike lane and then hop on the sidewalk at which point he hit a hidden curb and did an endo off his steed. I heard this story and berated the man for his stupidity. I feel bad he got hurt but come on. These are the examples that anti-cyclist motorists cite when they assert that we have no right to be on the road. If I can turn one person around, it's a step closer to a true sharing of the road. I do all I can to be a good example but sometimes I think it's not enough, even in what is considered a "bike-friendly" place.
Many non-cyclists I know think I'm hypersensitive when I see other cyclists do asinine things. One of my coworkers broke his elbow and collarbone recently on his bike. No car involved. He was just stupid and impatient, not wanting to ride one more block to turn back off a one way street to go the other way. Instead, he decided to ride the wrong way down the bike lane and then hop on the sidewalk at which point he hit a hidden curb and did an endo off his steed. I heard this story and berated the man for his stupidity. I feel bad he got hurt but come on. These are the examples that anti-cyclist motorists cite when they assert that we have no right to be on the road. If I can turn one person around, it's a step closer to a true sharing of the road. I do all I can to be a good example but sometimes I think it's not enough, even in what is considered a "bike-friendly" place.
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1,488 Posts
Too true. I cannot tell you the number of times, since I've been working such long hours, that I've pulled way off the road, or into a parking lot, if I'm closer to a town; just to shut my eyes for a few minutes, or to get out and walk around for a bit. If my eyelids get heavy, I pull off the road. I've never needed more than a 10 minute catnap or walk to get myself the rest of the way home, but I'd take it if I did.
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787 Posts
Thanks for sharing the thoughts, John. I agree with the statement above 100%. There's little sense among drivers that if they wait for a safe opportunity to pass, they'll only take an extra 5 seconds to get to their destination. Heck, I've had people pass me in town (here in Munich where I'm in the bike-lane), and then have to wait with me at the next stop light. Until we stop seeing driving as an absolute right, and start viewing cycling as both a valid means of transportation and a good way to get exercise, things won't change.<br><br>
Hobey - Good on you for getting after people who don't follow the rules of the road.<br><br>
I've been watching the reaction to this tragic event both here and over on ST. The comments at the SFGate site are sobering, to say the least. As is sadly usual in these cases, there's a fair number of people asking why the cyclists weren't on the sidewalk, and claiming that the dangerous behaviour of a few cyclists somehow makes it open-season for everyone else. Be careful out there!
Hobey - Good on you for getting after people who don't follow the rules of the road.<br><br>
I've been watching the reaction to this tragic event both here and over on ST. The comments at the SFGate site are sobering, to say the least. As is sadly usual in these cases, there's a fair number of people asking why the cyclists weren't on the sidewalk, and claiming that the dangerous behaviour of a few cyclists somehow makes it open-season for everyone else. Be careful out there!
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3,398 Posts
As I rode passed the gas station this AM I thought about all those people that don't think bikes should be on the road. I wondered how all these vehicles are going to be able to continue to pay for gas when it's 4 and 5 dollars a gallon.<br><br>
CS
CS
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11,648 Posts
Oh, man, that sucks <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif"><br><br>
BTW, the probe into the bicyclist accident here has been completed; the recommendation from CHP investigators is to press misdemeanor charges against the deputy. It is up to the County DA however to take up the recommendations.<br><br><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8906295" target="_blank">http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8906295</a>
BTW, the probe into the bicyclist accident here has been completed; the recommendation from CHP investigators is to press misdemeanor charges against the deputy. It is up to the County DA however to take up the recommendations.<br><br><a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8906295" target="_blank">http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8906295</a>
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