Women Masters Training Manual

Sans Souci · Nov 17, 2007

Okay, can someone tell me where it is? 
Something that's wide-ranging. Not simply for someone starting out or the focus only on the elite; for your "Average Jane" trying to improve. For women over 45 ... even better. 
Where are the studies and literature about training for older women? How much is too much? Or is there such a thing? Cross-training? Stretching? Yoga? Rest days? Injuries? Treatment of injuries? 
My coach and PT both tell me there is very little information, so in a way, as we try to ramp things up, we're flailing around a bit. Sure, we can see what we might have done wrong after the fact and what we will change in the future. (I know ... this applies to all runners.) 
I haven't read Masters Running or Fitness After Forty by Hal Higdon. The excerpts I've come across don't seem to have what I'm looking for.

JJJessee · Nov 17, 2007

Maybe that's the book you're given to write. 
jjj

riley0003 · Nov 17, 2007

I'm a librarian so I have access to millions of books, but I haven't run across the perfect woman's training manual that addresses cross-training, nutrition, injury, stretching, and all those other factors you mention in depth. The closest is the one by Jenny (something) who is married to John Bingham (the penguin). But that one is pretty sport specific and mostly deals with women's running and the other issues are lightly touched on. Most of the other books also address one thing and give very short shrift to the others. Then of course there's the celebrity ones, which usually aren't even worth the paper they're printed on. 
Susan

Pink · Nov 17, 2007

I opened this post up thinking it was going to provide the manual . . . I second JJJ's suggestion!

FlyingFinn · Nov 17, 2007

Yes, please write the manual, SS. 
Your flailing friend Finn.

Sans Souci · Nov 18, 2007

You guys are nuts. You want the Old Bird who's had PF, a pretty good kankle, and now a calf tear just this year to write a manual? 
(Oh, yeah, and a technical school education where I spent a lotta time dfrinking beer and running around mute in an Ook mascot costume.) 
Where are the Smarty Pants researchers? We have a bunch of Masters Women ready and willing to be the guinea pigs! Why not uber photogenic Kickrunners Masters Women starring in a TV documentary instead of the bunch that started from zero and did Boston? 
(Someone ... quick! ... hide the dreadful photo thread! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Very Happy"> )

rosecoloredglasses · Nov 18, 2007

Okay. 
Since you are sort of on the DL... you are the one with the time to write. All right, I might join you on the DL in a few weeks, so I will accept a research assignment. 
I do have access to the athletic training department at W&M but they tend focus on collegiate athletes. Also, I taught a physiology lab one semester and one semester ONLY in the Kinesiology Department but I am not well versed in the subject. 
I am a much better Indian than Chief so tell me how to proceed. 
Your friend, 
Rose

JJJessee · Nov 18, 2007

Let's see. You've got street cred, a staff, support, knowledge and wit. 
It's sounding like a best seller with broad crossover appeal to me. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Very Happy">

Mustang Sally · Nov 18, 2007

Training for Old Broads. 
Sounds catchy. I ran the idea past Coach, who is, after all, a kinesthesiologist and knows how to interpret research: She says there is, indeed, no such book, and that there's precious little data out there. She thinks it's a great idea... but that it all comes down, in the end, to the fact that it all depends on the individual and her needs. 
ETA: She did agree that there may not be many places with a bigger population of interesting research candidates - the Vancouver Island middle-aged population is, in general, one of Canada's most motivated to exercise. 
K

Econo · Nov 18, 2007

Higdon's Masters book is great if you're a guy and fascinated by guys' running in the early days. It's a history book, really. And not a very good one. If you're into running lore, the book about Bowerman (by Kenny Moore) is a treasure. 
No offense to Kathryn, but I'm tired of hearing about K. Switzer's Boston marathon story over and over as the token "women's segment" in any given book about long distance running. 
Sorry to ramble. Here's an excerpt from Suzy Favor-Hamilton's book, Fast Track (this is a track & field training book): 
Heading: Post-college training for the local 5-K or 10-K road race. 
3 paragraphs, then the following training is recommended: 
* Keep running fun. 
* The day after a race, take a day off. 
* Once a week, do a long distance run of about 10 miles at a conversational pace. 
* Once a week, do speedwork, such as running up stadium steps or a 100-yard hilll with a gradual incline 10 times and walking down. 
* After you run, consume a protein-carbohydrate shake. 
* If you have any nagging lower-extremity joint pain, stop running and do nonimpact cardiovascular exercises. 
* On hot days, make sure you hydrate yourself with a sports drink. 
* Every 4 months, take at least one week off completely from running. 
* Always warm up before running. 
* Always cool down after running. 
Gee! Isn't that helpful? Thanks for the vote of confidence for the post-collegiate old gals.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Sad"> I am offended by the assumption that age group competition isn't worth any interest at all, and also offended by the assumption that track ends in college. Grrr!

choovie · Nov 18, 2007

I borrowed The Complete Book of Running for Women by Claire Kowalchik via interlibrary loan a while back but can't remember that much about it now. Seems like it might've leaned a bit too much towards the beginning runner. Maybe I'll get it again and take another look. Sorry I can't give you more info -- guess my master's memory isn't what it used to be. hehe. 
Here's an Amazon link if you are interested: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=kickrunners-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FComplete-Book-Running-Women%2Fdp%2F0671017039%2Fref%3Dpd_bbs_sr_1%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1195351669%26sr%3D1-1" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-...5351669&sr=1-1</a>

rosecoloredglasses · Nov 18, 2007

Yep. Seems like we have a ton of evidence pointing to the absence of such a book on the shelves. 
It means we can be part of the problem or part of the solution. I vote for solution. 
How do we start? 
We need La T here. She knows all about research. We could do this. What say you Chief?

Sans Souci · Nov 18, 2007

Me too. 
I was thinking along the same lines, although I had in mind La T's publishing knowledge. Research knowledge ... even better! 
The Numbers Women are here! (Great post, Econo.) 
Raise your right hand -- oops, sorry, other life. 
Raise your hand if you want to be one of the test subjects (if that is the right term). We will need to go through LT testing like MS. Can we bypass the caliper test? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/hello2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hello1"> (SS double hand raise) ETA: La T is away for the weekend and her work life is insane right now, but she will be here (KR) next week.

riley0003 · Nov 18, 2007

I'd be a test subject.....but I have no idea where I could get lactate threshold testing done. I could be the token "old broken down" broad with past medical problems. 
Susan

Aija · Nov 18, 2007

Hiya, 
I've just taken up with a female accredited coach who also happens to be a fantastic international level master-aged athlete. We've only just begun our conversations, but I've already learned a lot. I think it's going to be a tough adjustment for me because; first off - she says 7 days of running is too much. 
She feels we should be in the pool some days even when we aren't injured. She advocates cross-training, forgoing the junk miles for quality training sessions, working out with buddies in our own demographic; both for physical and psychological benefit, and a major focus on recovery science, nutrition and rest. 
I would be happy to contribute in any way to a communal font of knowledge here too. I'll ask her if she has any suggested book titles. 
Cheers, 
Aija

gin79 · Nov 19, 2007

I have this book and use the training programs for marathoning. They are broken down into bronze, silver or gold, depending on your lifestyle and experience. It has worked for me 8 times now. However, other than that, very basic.

Econo · Nov 19, 2007

LT testing? yipes! Count me in! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Very Happy"> Surely I can get that done here in Eugene; possibly even on campus.

Sans Souci · Nov 19, 2007

Econo, maybe your buddy Joe can help us with what kind of testing we should have. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/notworthy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="notworthy"> 
Hi, Aija! I know what you're saying about making adjustments. When I'm feeling great, all I want to do is run, run, run. Sounds like you have a great coach; I'm hearing similar things as you, even the partnering up (the part I like the least, as I like running and w/o's solo). 
My PT isn't so keen on the plyometrics I was doing (esp. with a bum ankle ... duh!), particularly the kind where you're jumping and hopping and stressing bits with quite an impact. 
I've been quite pleased with the adjustments I've made this turn on the DL. I am l-o-v-i-n-g the rowing machine, and the pool running isn't all that bad either. It will be interesting to see how much fitness I've lost. I plan on incorporating both when I'm back running. 
I also pay more attention to nutrition. Go figgur.

Johnny · Nov 19, 2007

I have nothing of importance to add to this, however, I do say, I think putting this treatise together may be the culmination of your life's work, SS. Here, here,........... and we knew ya back when......... 
A couple of books in my ever increasing running book librarythat would be of no help: 
Running after 50 by Richard Benyo: an interesting read, but geared toward changes needed to be made by the lifetime runner who's reached the 50 year old milestone. Advice like more x-training, rest days, etc., decline in race times, intersperced with running anecdotes. Not really female specific. 
The Last Mile by Pam Reed: Her autobiography, no real insight into how she's able to run the distances she does, injury prevention, training philosophy's etc., just a lot of stories about various races concentrating on Badwater.

rosecoloredglasses · Nov 19, 2007

Aija, you are a fabulous addition to the team. 
Great idea for econo to ask Joe about specific tests we should take. 
So. (not necessarily in this order) 
We are going to: 
1. establish the demographic parameters. (sorry, no men) Shall we say the criteria include: women, over 40 years of age. Anything else? Weight, height, experience, pre-existing conditions, occupations? I think the less restrictive the better, but I don't know if that is correct. 
2. establish specific measurement/tests. Height, weight, LT, hiptowaist ration (yikes!) % body fat (double yikes?) Or does that even matter? 
3. establish specific goals, what are we trying to accomplish? 
4. Collect all the data and analyze it. 
5. Add some anecdotal stuff. 
6. Nutritional recommendations. 
7. What else?

Women Masters Training Manual

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