What are your expectations from the organizer of an ultra/trail race?

SportiGrl · Aug 3, 2010

I know there are plenty ... but list the thing you can think of in the order of importance ...
 
this is just a personal question .... not planning to set up a race myself ... maybe someday ... but not anytime soon!

Jensparks · Aug 3, 2010

My $.02 from a 'novice' ...
 
1. Unless orienteering is billed as part of the fun of the particular race, I think it's most important for trail race to be well-marked & the distance accurate. A friend of mine ran a 50-miler this summer and they changed the route from the previous year. Turned out it was really 54 miles this year and they knew it ahead of time, but they didn't tell anyone until the race was over. <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/confused.gif" title=""> For time/pacing purposes, it's kind of important to know if a race is 4 miles longer than you expect, don't ya think? She was not pleased.
 
2. Clear communication of details you need to know - ie: race number pickup/registration, directions to the start & parking info, aid station info (what will you supply? Because if you don't have my Swedish Fish, I will bring my own!), course info, etc. There was amazing amounts of info for the 50k I did in May, which really helped quell my nerves. 
 
3. Be available to answer questions via email or in person for info not provided in #2. I might be overlooking info you've already provided, but answer my question anyway, or point me in the right direction.

shellerz · Aug 3, 2010

ditto all of the above

ChrisG · Aug 3, 2010

+1 to Jensparks's second and third items about clear communication about the race and expectations. We're ultra-runners! We don't need fully catered buffets at every aid station (it is nice...) but we do need to know if there will be more than water waiting for us. In fact, if I know there are problems with the flagging or the course has changed, groovy, I'll carry a map.
 
4. Stock enough water at the aid stations. Everything else can run out. I'm back of mid-pack or a fast back-of-the-pack runner. I hate running into the aid station and water is already low. I feel guilty because folks behind me will need the water more than I do. Sometimes, I fill my bottles and hope the folks behind me are OK. Sometimes, I take less. It would be better if I didn't need to worry.
 
Chris G

fatozzig · Aug 3, 2010

Same as already listed, but I would also add to remember the slow runners (like me). We pay the same fee to enter the race, we're putting out just as much energy and effort as everyone else, and can, at times, be out there hours longer. It's very disheartening to come into an aid station late in the game and there's very little to choose from. Like ChrisG said, I don't expect a buffet, but I do expect the same consideration as the front runners.
 
With regard to this, PCTR runs and AR50 are at the top of my list for making sure their aid stations are just as full for the slow runners as they are for the fast.

Eric · Aug 4, 2010

During those hot humid days Ice is pretty beneficial to have. I noticed this year at an event ice was an issue, particularly at the un-manned aid stations. So I would say do whatever it takes to make sure those runners have some ice on those hot humid days.

Blaine Moore · Aug 6, 2010

Biggest thing for me is clear communication.
 
I don't care if I have to schlep all my own gear with me the entire race or provide my own drop areas, I don't care if the course isn't well marked (although I prefer it to be), I just want to know in advance what to expect. 
 
Now, preferably the race is well marked, relatively accurate for what it was supposed to be, there's plenty of water, and there's plenty of other food stuff and goodies. But as long as I'm told there isn't, I'm good with it. I could always choose not to run.

Sherpa John · Aug 7, 2010

I expect the RD to give me whatever has been advertised... or whatever I have paid for.
 
If there are changes prior to race day... I expect the RD to tell me about them.. ALL of them.
 
If there are changes on race day... I expect to hear those as well... ALL of them.
 
If a refund is an option... I hope to be able to acquire that if I back out of a race due to changes.
 
 
This is all I expect from an RD. As a runner.. I am responsible for myself... I am responsible for knowing the course so I don't expect courses to be marked or having aid.
 
SJ

cgerber · Aug 7, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Blaine Moore <a href="/forum/thread/69241/what-are-your-expectations-from-the-organizer-of-an-ultra-trail-race#post_1931064"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> Biggest thing for me is clear communication.
 
I don't care if I have to schlep all my own gear with me the entire race or provide my own drop areas, I don't care if the course isn't well marked (although I prefer it to be), I just want to know in advance what to expect. 
 
Now, preferably the race is well marked, relatively accurate for what it was supposed to be, there's plenty of water, and there's plenty of other food stuff and goodies. But as long as I'm told there isn't, I'm good with it. I could always choose not to run. 
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+1

raw~vegan~runner · Aug 8, 2010

Water. For real. If its hot, plan for it. If you aren't going to accomodate people in the heat, say so...ie if you don't think unmanned aid stations will have water, SAY SO so people can plan to carry more.
 
I don't care about food because I bring my own, but I agree...if you are advertising you will have it, then I hope you do.
 
Well marked course. If I am traveling to come to your race, chances are I will not have any idea what the course is like. Either provide a VERY good map, or mark well. I also agree if orienteering is required, say so (and I will skip the race...I get lost on my own street...)
 
Realistic entry fees. I don't need all kinds of schwag and a $200 entry fee. I would rather have a reasonable fee that goes to what is involved in putting on the race, and forgo the extra *stuff*.

Just Jim · Aug 8, 2010

Value for money.
 
If I pay nothing, then I expect nothing.
 
If I pay $200 - then I would expect to turn up an not have to worry about anything apart from what I wear.
 
Above all, communication - as has been mentioned, tell me what is planned, where the aid stations are, and what you are planning to put on those aid stations.
 
Oh, a good RD will put runners first - not sponsors (common in road races "packet pickup only at the expo the day before the race" for example)

Buzzie · Aug 8, 2010

Lots of good thoughts above ^ ^ ^
 
- Good communication - thorough, found all in one place (and consistent throughout documentation)
- Race and amenities/proceedings as advertised - especially food/aid and course markings as documented in race info
- Value for money
 
I've not yet done many ultras; but, there is one that seriously fell down on at least two of these and (although I liked the course, camaraderie, and challenge) to which I don't think I'll return (unless significant changes are made).

Hoernigsm · Aug 9, 2010

I agree with the communication. As I'm going into my first 50M very soon, I have quite a few worries. I'm sure even the most experienced of you out there had your first ultra experience at some time or another. I would also bet that at most races there is at least 1 1st timer involved. I don't necessarily need to be catered to hand handed everything on a platter, but I do thrive on information, and the more you can give me the better and the better my 1st experience will be as I can plan ahead.

HasherRick · Aug 9, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Jensparks <a href="/forum/thread/69241/what-are-your-expectations-from-the-organizer-of-an-ultra-trail-race#post_1929276"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> 2. Clear communication of details you need to know - ie: race number pickup/registration, directions to the start & parking info, aid station info (what will you supply? Because if you don't have my Swedish Fish, I will bring my own!), course info, etc. There was amazing amounts of info for the 50k I did in May, which really helped quell my nerves. 
 
3. Be available to answer questions via email or in person for info not provided in #2. I might be overlooking info you've already provided, but answer my question anyway, or point me in the right direction.
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My response is in no way against the poster but as an RD I would like to respond.
 
If I provide #2 then why do I need to do #3? This is in regards to information provided somewhere else (not missing entirely). If I spend my valuable time putting all the details in one spot and communicate them with you either via a website or email / blog then why do I need to respond to each and every question from every runner. 
 
As a runner you feel very small. You are only one person. How hard is it for the RD to answer my simple questions? In truth, one person it is not hard at all. But what if every runner or even half the runners asked the same or similar questions leading up to race day? You spend hours and hours answering questions that the runner can easily find the answers to online.
 
I can appreciate the fact you want individualized service but you may not appreciate the fact most RDs, especially in ultras, are low paid if not volunteers with real jobs and lives outside the sport. If they spent all their time answering every little question then the overall race would suffer or they would get fired from their real jobs and not be able to put on the race you so dearly love.
 
Just another point on #2 (aid station food). Do people really care about one item (Swedish fish) or is it more just to get an idea if there will be more than gels available. It is a common question from people but I never know what they are really asking or what they want as a response. It would be a much better question from a racer to ask "Will there be cut bananas? or will I need to bring my own?" If you care that much about one particular item then ask that question, I never list every item that I will put out on race day because I usually don't know exactly what will be on sale 4 weeks before race day. If some one asks for Swedish Fish or garden burgers though I will go out of my way to be able to provide it (within reason). 

Rick McNulty
NJ Trail Series

Jensparks · Aug 10, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by HasherRick <a href="/forum/thread/69241/what-are-your-expectations-from-the-organizer-of-an-ultra-trail-race#post_1931870"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> My response is in no way against the poster but as an RD I would like to respond.
 
If I provide #2 then why do I need to do #3? This is in regards to information provided somewhere else (not missing entirely). If I spend my valuable time putting all the details in one spot and communicate them with you either via a website or email / blog then why do I need to respond to each and every question from every runner. 
 
As a runner you feel very small. You are only one person. How hard is it for the RD to answer my simple questions? In truth, one person it is not hard at all. But what if every runner or even half the runners asked the same or similar questions leading up to race day? You spend hours and hours answering questions that the runner can easily find the answers to online.
 
I can appreciate the fact you want individualized service but you may not appreciate the fact most RDs, especially in ultras, are low paid if not volunteers with real jobs and lives outside the sport. If they spent all their time answering every little question then the overall race would suffer or they would get fired from their real jobs and not be able to put on the race you so dearly love.
 
Just another point on #2 (aid station food). Do people really care about one item (Swedish fish) or is it more just to get an idea if there will be more than gels available. It is a common question from people but I never know what they are really asking or what they want as a response. It would be a much better question from a racer to ask "Will there be cut bananas? or will I need to bring my own?" If you care that much about one particular item then ask that question, I never list every item that I will put out on race day because I usually don't know exactly what will be on sale 4 weeks before race day. If some one asks for Swedish Fish or garden burgers though I will go out of my way to be able to provide it (within reason). 

Rick McNulty
NJ Trail Series
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If you have a list of what will be at the aid stations prior to the race (<a href="http://www.pinelandfarms.com/index.html" target="_blank">Pineland Farms</a> did this quite well, for example), I'll know if what I like is not on the list, I should bring my own. Even if it's the week before the race, it gives me an opportunity to pack my own bag. 
 
"But what if every runner or even half the runners asked the same or similar questions leading up to race day?" I'm not an RD, but if more than a few people asked me the same or similar question, I'd realize it's not communicated clearly enough and I'd try to clarify the info provided.
 
I volunteer with a trail race our running club puts on every year (not an ultra, but it's a race I'm familiar with the 'behind the scenes on'). It has grown in size from 30 runners in 2005, to 280 last year. The RD for the race, an unpaid volunteer, receives tons of emails and he responds to them all. I believe this is part of why the race has grown so large in size, people like having their questions answered. That being said, I try to avoid bothering any RD unless I think it's necessary because I know how busy they are. I've seen it, I've been part of it. It takes a LOT to put on a race of any size and juggle every detail. My hat is off to those of you who do it & do it well!

Sherpa John · Aug 10, 2010

One of the reasons I'll never RD again (probably) is because when I was the RD for the New England 200.. I had a runner.. ONE RUNNER... e-mailing me maybe 5 times a day with questions that had all ready been answered on the race website. They continued with questions that I couldn't answer.... it got to be WAY too much to handle.. and this was just ONE runner.
 
Bottom like for me is.. The RD's job is to have a race site and whatever they have advertised. that's it. They are NOT personal slaves.

Jensparks · Aug 10, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Sherpa John <a href="/forum/thread/69241/what-are-your-expectations-from-the-organizer-of-an-ultra-trail-race#post_1932352"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> One of the reasons I'll never RD again (probably) is because when I was the RD for the New England 200.. I had a runner.. ONE RUNNER... e-mailing me maybe 5 times a day with questions that had all ready been answered on the race website. They continued with questions that I couldn't answer.... it got to be WAY too much to handle.. and this was just ONE runner.
 
Bottom like for me is.. The RD's job is to have a race site and whatever they have advertised. that's it. They are NOT personal slaves.
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Yikes!
 
I guess perhaps being available to answer questions shouldn't have been on my reply. I just assumed that was 'part of the job' ... but having never been a RD before, I wasn't thinking of the other side where you likely do get people who eventually drive you nuts with questions! 
 
There's a marathon I ran in VA that advertises itself as a "no frills" event and it states "amenities are minimal" (and with an entry fee of $10 for a USATF certified course, you can't beat it!). It was good to know this ahead of time, and it's spelled out clearly on the home page of the website. I don't need to be catered to, I just want to know what to expect.

SportiGrl · Aug 11, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Sherpa John <a href="/forum/thread/69241/what-are-your-expectations-from-the-organizer-of-an-ultra-trail-race#post_1932352"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> One of the reasons I'll never RD again (probably) is because when I was the RD for the New England 200.. I had a runner.. ONE RUNNER... e-mailing me maybe 5 times a day with questions that had all ready been answered on the race website. They continued with questions that I couldn't answer.... it got to be WAY too much to handle.. and this was just ONE runner.
 
Bottom like for me is.. The RD's job is to have a race site and whatever they have advertised. that's it. They are NOT personal slaves.
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THIS .... if you sign on for an ultra you should not expect to be babied, imho ... if it's not clearly stated in the ads, plan that it's not included and plan accordingly .... most of the ultras I've gotten a chance to run and volunteer at leave it to the aid station captains to supply and the captains HOPE the RD compensates them for their expenditures ... 
 
when I check out a flyer or website about a potential race to run I don't ever even consider bothering the RD with questions ... if they don't provide info I feel is necessary I just assume their race is not for me in my current state of neediness ... 
 
 
personally ... I need to know water is available and where I am allowed to leave drop bags ... and I'd like a finisher's award and if I place I'd like some hardware, lol .... but if it's not advertised as being part of the package upon signing up I surely don't assume it's part of the deal ...
 
 
marking of trails, esp the intersections, is very important to me since my internal compass is very lacking ... knowing approx milage between AS is pretty important since I usually carry what I need or put in my drop bags those things ... 
 
I suppose my attitude is part of why I like FA events ..............

merigayle · Aug 11, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Jensparks <a href="/forum/thread/69241/what-are-your-expectations-from-the-organizer-of-an-ultra-trail-race#post_1929276"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> My $.02 from a 'novice' ...
 2. Clear communication of details you need to know - ie: race number pickup/registration, directions to the start & parking info, aid station info (what will you supply? Because if you don't have my Swedish Fish, I will bring my own!), course info, etc. There was amazing amounts of info for the 50k I did in May, which really helped quell my nerves. 
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wow, I am really shocked about this one. I do not expect to know what is at aid stations, but a general description, like "we will have pretzels, sweets, pb&j, and soup" that is all I need.
 
I do like to know what sports drink is going to be served because so many have given me tummy issues.
 
very clearly marked trails are a must. especially when you travel to an unknown place for a race.
 
same day packet pick up is big for me.
 
I like the RD to be able to answer some questions that are not on the website. Many websites have zero information and that makes it hard for runners to know what to expect.
 
For any race 50M or more, drop bags. One of my big beefs with JFK is the lack of drop bags.

Jensparks · Aug 11, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by merigayle <a href="/forum/thread/69241/what-are-your-expectations-from-the-organizer-of-an-ultra-trail-race#post_1932582"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> 
wow, I am really shocked about this one. I do not expect to know what is at aid stations, but a general description, like "we will have pretzels, sweets, pb&j, and soup" that is all I need.
 
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No need to be shocked! I was kind of tongue in cheek about the Swedish Fish ... merely saying if there was something I knew I had to have to make me happy, I'd bring it if it wasn't specifically listed. I don't expect there to be a fully detailed list!
 
In the races I've run I've seen everything from:
"Food and drinks will be provided at the start/finish area" - this was for a 6-hour race
 
to:
"Each aid station will be stocked with the following supplies: cold water, diluted Gatorade electrolyte drink, cola, ice, ibuprofen, Succeed S!Caps (limited supply), gummy bears, Oreos, chips, pretzels, potatoes and salt, PB&J sandwiches, M&Ms, candy orange slices, oranges, and bananas." - for Pineland Farms
 
 
I'm a novice when it comes to trails & ultras, but I prepare to support myself out on the trail. I am only using the aid stations to add variety to what I've brought with me (Gu & my own electrolyte caps ... so far anyway).

What are your expectations from the organizer of an ultra/trail race?

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