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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="http://www.goswim.tv/articles_comments.php?id=5062_0_16_0_C" target="_blank">http://www.goswim.tv/articles_commen...=5062_0_16_0_C</a><br><br>
For those who are working on SPL (Strokes Per Length), if you'd like to see some nice photos of good streamlined arms/hands....click above.<br><br>
The article associated with the pics doesn't relate to streamlining, so read it if you want, but the pics are the point of the link.<br><br>
Stitch
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Or....<br>
If you want a fun set in the pool (looks like fun, at least)....<br><br>
try this:<br><br><a href="http://www.goswim.tv/articles_comments.php?id=5049_0_16_0_C" target="_blank">http://www.goswim.tv/articles_commen...=5049_0_16_0_C</a><br><br>
Stitch
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That site is a nice site to have in your arsenal of places to go for information. There are a lot of articles aimed at age-group swimmers, but the one lady (Barbara) is a master's coach, so there will be stuff for "grown ups" as well.<br><br>
They also have links to books, videos, and online videos that will show drills and other stuff.<br><br>
Stitch
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yup....stack right off the wall.<br><br>
If you're sitting in your chair now...<br>
put both arms so that your biceps are squeezing your ears....<br>
you may have to tuck your chin just a bit...<br>
then, put one hand on top of the other like in the pic.<br><br>
Now....instead of making yourself look like a "tugboat" (flat fronted), now you look like a canoe (pointy fronted)....when you're prone in the water.<br><br><br><br><br>
ok, you can put your arms down now.<img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">
 

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How did you know I had my hands up in the air?<img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif">
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
he he he he<br>
I can see you!<br><br>
or...<br>
I've done the same thing when reading similar things in the past.<br><br>
You pick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
he he he he.<br>
That's 2!
 

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Stitch (or anyone else): Swim Question<br><br>
I read all the time about high elbow when starting the catch and during the pull where you're also suppose to keep the elbow bent at 90 degrees. I imagine this means your upper arm is nearly parallel to water's surface while the forearm (lower arm) is straight down.<br><br>
First, does this sound right -- as in, am I understanding what is meant by "high elbow" correctly?<br><br>
Second, when I try this I am actually slower. I've been trying this for a while now and find that I am slower than when I reach out far in front of me in setting up the catch (during the glide), and then digging more down (rather than high elbow near water's surface) in an almost over the barrel sort of way and then pulling. I feel the resistance of water, almost like a wall, on my hand during that pull. But I don't when keeping elbow high.<br><br>
If my understanding is correct, I'm guessing that I should just keep at it until I build those muscles and further learn the nuances of the more proper stroke and continue with one-armed drills, which sort of force the higher elbow.<br><br>
And if correct, I'm guessing also that the reason I'm faster my old way is because one, I haven't built the muscles (or commited muscle memory) to the new way, and two, because I did it so long the old way that I became proficient at it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ummm.....<br>
For minute technique questions, I'm going to defer to CC because I'm just a swimmer person not a coaching person.<br>
But, I read a ton about it.<br><br>
I think you see "high elbow" because in doing this you avoid slipping through the water when you pull. Imagine if you had your wrist roughly in the same plane as your elbow...so that the elbow is "lower" in relation to it. As your arm cycles through the pull, the water would plane under it, and you wouldn't have as much "go" from the stroke.<br><br>
BUT, if you think of keeping your elbow whereever it is, and letting your hand go just a touch deeper, then, more water is being pulled by your forearm, and you'll get more "go."<br><br>
This is what swimming with fists will demonstrate to you....you'll feel the water on the inside of your forearm more than if you swim with a flat hand. There's a drill called fist drill.....you won't go fast, but you'll feel the water differently.<br><br>
Another way to think about it is to imagine that your lying on a board that allows you to move along the ground.....and you want to "crawl" along the floor. You have to anchor your hand on the ground, and then pull your body up over your hand, rather than pulling your hand along the ground.....if you did that, you'd rub the skin off of your fingers pretty quickly. The first time I ever had this feeling it was NIRVANA.....I didn't feel like I was working all that much harder, but I was smarter in my work. And, I made my interval handily.<br><br>
CC....Sheldon......<br>
Chime in on this, please.<br><br>
 

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Thor,<br><br>
Here's some good video of "high elbow" (Grant Hackett). The "over the barrel" analogy works to try and describe it...<br><br><a href="http://www.faculty.sbc.edu/mcalarco/hackett1.mpeg" target="_blank">http://www.faculty.sbc.edu/mcalarco/hackett1.mpeg</a><br><br>
Reg.
 

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Thank you, Stitch. You did a good job explaining the visual. So then "high elbow," a premise I totally get and subscribe to, doesn't necessarily mean keep it high by the water's surface so that it's almost parallel, but rather high in the water, where ever that might be, in relation to your hand so that you have a paddle (rather than slippage, as you describe).<br><br>
And if that's correct, then my old way was probably accurate -- or at least accurate enough, hence why I'm faster that way and feel the water much more in the pull against my hand AND forearm.
 

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Reg. Awesome video. Thanks! Still hard to see if the high elbow is way up by water's edge, but it appears it's probably higher than I do now. So then, if all correct, I should focus on bringing elbow higher in the water while keeping it higher than my hand (to give me that paddle effect).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yup.<br>
If you try to keep it too high, you'll wack your shoulder cause it doesn't want to move that way. You want to dig just a bit.
 

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Got it, and thank you, and thank you to Reg, because now when I go back to that video, I see that the "high elbow" is in relation to the hand; it is not near the surface of the water.<br><br>
At least now I can stop trying to emulate something that isn't right. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Always a good thing to practice right instead of practice wrong.<br>
lol<br><br>
Making a bit of a leap......<br>
I "get" swimming. I'm not particularly fast in comparison to my agegroup at master's meets, but I hold my own, depending on who shows up. I'm comfortable in the water.<br><br>
Running...........<br>
nope.<br>
Running is work for me.<br>
Swimming is relaxing fun that can also require work, but it's a fun kind of work.<br>
I want/need to do move my running to feel more like swimming....<br><br>
When I'm off the roads for a period of time (travel, illness, whatever...) it takes me what feels like forever to get back into a smoothness while running. And forget speed.<br>
But, even if I've been out of the water for 10 days, the next time I get in, I'm relaxed, smooth...maybe not quick, but feeling good. A workout or two later, I'm back in the swim of things.<br><br>
[pity_party]"All Y'all" that struggle/work with swimming.....that's how I feel running.[/pity_party]
 

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I hear you. Running is tough to get into. I think part of the problem is that it takes so much consistent effort before you build enough of a base and the body adapts to the workload until it becomes something you at least don't dread. Seems to be that way for everybody back when they first started.<br><br>
I have this theory that for most people (note I didn't say all) at certain level in one sport, there's no reason why they can't be there in another like sport. That premise got me to elevate my cycling to where my running is, and hopefully that premise will get me to eventually elevate my swimming to where my cycling and running are.<br><br>
I realize swimming has yet another component, and that is that it is more technique oriented, but there is still the physical aspect, and although we talk about the fine art of technique, the physical cannot be ignored.<br><br>
Because of this I realize that I have been running for more years than I remember and have at least cycled here and there since I was a kid. I can't expect to make up 25 years on the swim because, well, I never swam a stroke until 2.5 years ago, and that's no exaggeration.<br><br>
However, I think my form is not bad. My legs are near the surface of the water. But I don't think I have the strength to get a good pull much the same someone who has never ran in his life who all of a sudden starts running can't expect to run 7 minute miles. Got to work up those muscles. I'm guessing that if you could hook up a power meter to my pull, where I'd be registering a paltry 80W, everybody else, including those with crap form for whom I am a bit faster, are getting 270W. Maybe not to that extreme, but in principle I think that's part of my problem.<br><br>
Thinking out loud, maybe in addition to drilling, maybe I should get some surgical cord and do strengthening exercises swimmers often do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Exactly.<br>
I have to constantly remind myself that I don't remember NOT knowing how to swim.<br>
I DO remember NOT knowing how to run. REally....I seriously believed that my body was INCAPABLE of running any sort of distance.<br><br>
I've been running for 5 years....that's it.
 
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