[roots]

Hello gang,<br><br>
My intent with this thread is to get feedback from the moderator crew to assist in decision-making for the VRAA game.<br>
~lloyd<br>
__<br>
Two topics:<br><br>
1. I mentioned in the "Gang, let's talk," thread that I may have some issues arise where I'll ask for your opinion. Wouldn't you know it, I have one right away.<br><br>
I have a HS track athlete named Alex wanting to join. At first, and without my input, he was talking himself out of it, thinking it would not be a good idea since its track season. From what I've garnered, I think he's a good kid. He's participated in the CR daily RnR report thread and now he's participating here at Kick.<br><br>
Now, he's decided to join.<br><br>
Before his decision to join, I was just about to suggest to him to wait until the season ends and join us during the summer. Is this a good idea? My line-of-thought is 1) that I don't want an online game to negatively impact his track season, and 2) what kind of precedence would I set if I were to restrict him.<br><br>
I don't envision a whole lot of HS'ers wanting to join in, but it is wise to consider what <i>could</i> happen.<br><br>
Thoughts?

 

[merigayle]

I think it is fine to let him participate, just tell him to listen to his coach and log those miles and that there are people who exercise a lot and those who do not. He has recently joined our weight watchers thread in the Water Stop and instead of letting him restrict his intake, we are encouraging to EAT ENOUGH and eat higher quality foods. He seems like a real nice kid.<br><br>
I posted my issue with the VRAA in the other thread. I think there should be daily or weekly (probably weekly to factor in races) limits per player. A lot of people were very self concious about their performances and did not want their totals shown on line at the end. That is sad. We are all at different levels at different goals. Also, having someone who runs 165 miles a week is just insane, unless he is on his own team, solo <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
just my two cents.

 

[roots]

Topic #2:<br><br>
Meri, thanks for the feedback.<br><br>
Regarding Flounder, I did address him in a separate thread. I did anticipate some disbelief, so I thought to make that announcement. I do know that he is an honest guy. A hard worker, a bit compulsive, but honest. And his hard work shows in his race results.<br><br>
Should I be concerned with your comment that "many people voiced concern to me...and that they did not want to participate any more in the game...?"<br><br>
I am a bit surprised at this statement as their have been been no PMs to me, nor any message posts, stating this or any other dissatisfaction with Flounder, or the game in general.<br><br>
My initial thought on your recommendation is that I don't wish to limit or restrict anyone's gameplay. I'm not finding it within the spirit of the game to place a cap and to tell a small number of folks to stop working out or to stop giving the extra effort. After all, reaching for higher heights is a central facet of the competition here.<br><br>
As far as certain individuals feeling "self concious about their own, personal efforts," this is part of the reason that I have not posted complete individual standings. My impression is that everyone has had fun participating on a team and that seeing their contributions add up to the team score means something.<br><br>
Admittedly, there is no perfect scenario here. The top players will continue to post astounding totals.<br><br>
In the end, I know that everyone will choose on their own to play or not. And I understand that not everyone will play in each round. That choice is going happen and I cannot make people sign-up.<br><br>
I am, however, wondering if there will be mass exidous from this round due to Flounder. If you have any more insight, please do share. Thanks for your help.<br><br>
And of course, thanks for promoting the game and being the first one to sign up!<br>
~Lloyd

 

[merigayle]

Just saw this after my post.<br><br>
Yes. A lot of people either thought it was cheating and he was making up his three daily runs and excessive mileage, or that it was so over the top that it was not even worth competing against because their 3 or 5 mile daily runs paled in comparison.<br><br>
I am a higher mileage runner (not nearly as high as others) and even though i am proud of my running and cross training, i think that there should be a daily cap. Even the playing feild a little so people who are beginners or more cross trainers do not feel belittled or discouraged.<br><br>
I think a weekly cap is better than a daily cap in case people run races or do century's on their bike, etc. Also, if you are running a big race, your rest of the week on either end is going to be low. (like i ran maybe 8 miles the week after my 100 miler).

 

[merigayle]

I would poll the people. See what they think. I am not sure why no one PMed you. Most people talked to me about it in real life or in emails. I am on friendlier that online buddy status with them.

 

[liath]

Perhaps you could give speed sessions a different marking score?<br><br>
No idea about flounder, but you could weight the teams by mpw instead of number of people?

 

[sierra]

I think in the past when people signed up, they were asked to estimate their weekly mileage.<br><br>
Then, using THOSE numbers,the teams were put together. This helped to keep the teams relatively even in MILEAGE, if not in # of team members. (although I think you can stay close in number of members if you still use the mileage #)<br><br>
This eliminated these kinds of issues.<br><br>
Although you may be doing it this way, I dont know. I dont remember how you said it was done the first time. But I thought it was just random teams that were picked.<br><br>
FWIW, I really have no idea how its being done, so feel free to toss out this entire post if its irrelevant.

 

[roots]

Guys/gals, thanks for the input. Its not being ignored. Not sure a poll is needed for this topic, but using the poll is good idea to gather information.<br><br>
I will message Flounder to inform that I will implement a control to make the game fair to all the teams. Really, he is the only it would effect. The last thing I want out of this game is to make it where the team with Flounder wins each round. There is a solution.<br><br>
Meri, I am still somewhat concerned that "a lot" of people voice concern to you and not to the VRAA forum. Do me a favor, please, and if you have any more messages or talks with concerned individuals that to please pose the question to me or to the VRAA forum. Otherwise, I would never know about displeasures. Also, please encourage those concerned folks to join again. Enhancements are in the works.<br><br>
I am looking for more input on the High School participant. Its nothing against Alex, as he's been a solid contributor to Kick. I am just thinking ahead and a "what if" scenario.<br><br>
What if a whole HS team shows up and wants to play? Just thinking out loud here. I want to make the best judgement and not encourage anyone to get hurt or to promote an environ that counters their real-life coaching.<br><br>
Thanks,<br>
Lloyd

 

[roots]

Sierra, last round I identified 6 possible high-volume players. I made sure they were divided equally. The rest were drawn at random.<br><br>
Ultimately, some teams will be stronger than others. I will do my best to level the playing field.

 

[diablita]

Lloyd,<br>
In the beginning of last session you asked us to describe our workout frequency. I'm guessing you'll do that again this time, because for some of us it changes based on time of year, events coming up and/or injuries. At that time, you'll be able to see if Alex classifies himself realistically.<br><br>
If he does, a little monitoring on this go around should help to keep him on track. In other words, if you see him bumping up the miles big time, you could send some friendly messages.<br><br>
If he doesn't, you'll be able to address your concerns with him up front, before this session begins.<br><br>
I think that would cover it for you.

 

[liath]

Could you mark track sessions in a different way, like weights or cycling?

 

[merigayle]

I do not see the concern with Alex. He seems to listen to our feedback in the Water Stop, so i feel like he would be receptive to anything you had to say. I would be totally honest with him and tell him that you divide the teams up with some respect to mileage and that you do not want him to alter his training or jeopardize his track season. I think he will be totally ok with you being upfront with him. He seems like a good kid.<br><br>
When people voiced their concern to me, we were already 2/3 of the way thru the VRAA and i figured what had happened, happened. Then i posed it this time around to try to prevent that. If he could equal 3 people, then maybe that would be okay <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif"><br><br>
From now on i will have them contact you OR i will contact you right away.

 

[roots]

I'm not sure what purpose this would serve. Also not sure about your suggestion to score speed workouts differently. My intent is not to place value on speed. Everyone has their own pace.<br><br>
Regarding Alex, I don't have issue with his playing. I just asked the "what if," question. What if his whole HS team wants to play? This is the hypothetical scenario that I was envisioning.<br><br>
I'm not expecting the scenario to crop up, but I just wanted to plan for the situation in case it does happen.<br><br><br>
I will keep you posted on team selection. Goal is to evenly distribute teams that creates a fair and fun competition.<br><br>
Thanks for communicating with me.

 

[liath]

I meant so that people doing a speed session could be marked X points for training for an hour instead of a lot less because they only ran one mile for example.<br><br>
Just a thought,<br><br>
I'm in whatever <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
I've not seen this Alex fella in the PRT much, I'll have to chat to him.

 

[diablita]

roots,<br>
I like your proposed cap in the VRAA thread. I was thinking about this last night while running. Since a stated goal of the VRAA is to get people to work out beyond what they would do, it would be sad to put a ceiling on the point earning that inhibits a high performer from striving for more. But the half points aren't quite as restrictive.

 

[liath]

I agree.

 

[roots]

They game is safely underway now. Thanks for the input Dev (and everyone,) as it helped me to decide how to proceed.<br><br>
I appreciate this forum to be able to discuss in a safe spot.<br><br>
I'm not against polling the masses (and plan to do so for other topics,) but in the face of the game-start deadline, I went ahead and made decisions.<br><br>
We'll see how this round goes and monitor the changes. And its worth saying here that the ideas/discussion within this forum do not necessarily have to be announced to the entire population.<br><br>
I never meant for this game to take up too much of my time. I think I can continue to manage it, but not over-manage it.<br><br>
For those of you that are playing the VRAA, enjoy. Thanks again.<br><br><br>
Lloyd

 

[merigayle]

I think the point cap with the 1/2 points after 80M is a good way to try it out this time around. Flounder was the only one it really affected and he probably has some running addiction issues anyway that do not need to be fed any more by us <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> Did anyone else give you any feedback good or bad?