Upcoming HM hill question

Tri-Tammy · May 3, 2011

My next HM is coming up on June 5th! 
This is a course that I ran a few years ago and although the course is generally flat (as they get around here), there are 3 creek beds that are quad busters and I'd like to go into this race more prepared than I was the first time. 
 
For the HM the hills come at mile 3, mile 7 and 7.5 miles. 
The first is hill loses about 100 feet in approx. .10 of a mile. My first time running this I thought, oh, this isn't so bad.
The second hill loses about 125 feet in less than .10 of a mile. My first time, I didn't run this... it's just plain steep.
The third hill loses 200 feet in approx. in .50 of a mile. By the time I got here my quads and knees were not feeling so good.
Obviously there is some up to, but it's the down that just seems to kill me. 
 
I've been mixing up my long runs- one week hilly, the next week flatter, etc.
I'm doing one run per week that are just hills.
Then one tempo that is generally flatter.
 
Since I have 4 more weeks of training, what do you hill runners say I should focus on more at this point? Long downhills? Short downhills? Doesn't matter... just do more hills? You probably need to know that I'm not going into this to race it. I am in full tri-training and am using this as a means to help me get stronger for my Oly's this summer.
 
Any thoughts?

hobey · May 3, 2011

I may toss in downhill repeats on a short downhill. Some of the hills around your house would be perfect for this. Run down, focusing on quick turnover. Walk or jog back up the hill and do it all over again several times.

4boysmom · May 3, 2011

I am NOT an expert, just sharing an observation. Last season after a really, really bad race, I threw in a "just for the heck of it" HM. I had no goals, other than to have a fun race. I hadn't done any research on this race and had no idea just how hilly it was. I'm a flat-lander! It was a loop course that you did twice. First lap, I tried to power up the hills. Second lap, I said screw it and walked 'em. There was a girl in green shorts about 200yds ahead of me. When we powered up the hills, we stayed about 200yds apart. When I walked and she powered, she would gain ground. However, once at the top, I quickly regained ground, almost catching her. 
 
Obviously, I don't have any scientific evidence, but I wonder if for steep hills, it isn't better to just walk 'em. Keep your HR steady rather than shoot it through the roof and getting into whatever would be the equivalent of throwing in an all out sprint in the middle of a race.

Alaska Mike · May 3, 2011

I'm with Hobey, throw in some downhill repeats. Downhill running requires technique. You want to keep your body as perpendicular as possible to the ground, increase your turnover and keep your stride short. The natural inclination is to lengthen your stride and that causes you to land harder and more on your heels. You don't want to fight gravity, use it. The classic mistake in downhill running is to lean back and land on your heel, which causes you to apply the brakes every time your feet hit the ground and makes your quads fire in ways they are not used to.
 
Downhill repeats are just like uphill repeats. Find a good hill, run downhill focusing on form and turnover. When you get to the bottom, jog up. Repeat this anywhere from 5 to 10 times. You'll be going fast, but you don't need to push the pace. Just keep up with gravity. 
 
Is this a trail race? You mention they are creek beds, which indicates you may be talking trails. Downhill on trails can be challenging, but they are a blast if you are confident and have practiced running them. You need to keep your eyes on the ground about five to ten feet in front of you and learn to dodge rocks and roots. You simply need to have faith and you'll either fly by people or end up picking dirt and rocks out of your teeth when your faith is misplaced.
 
Mike

cak73 · May 3, 2011

I would add that it might be helpful to throw in the downhill repeats at the end of a run, or maybe even in the middle of a run since there are two downhills ~halfway through your HM.

Tri-Tammy · May 3, 2011

I honestly never thought of any downhill repeats. I do have some good hills near my house that will work great for this! 
I also have the ability throw in a long (1/2 mile) downhill in my long run. It would be at mile 3.5. I'm wondering if this would help, or hurt?? (for Matt and Hobey- this is the one we rode down to the trail)
 
Oh and Mike- the first year I ran this, they had finally paved the last creek bed. It's still gnarly though. It really feels like your running down into a pit. A beautiful tree-canopied pit! When I saw this my thought was... and they didn't build a bridge where the trestle was here because???

hobey · May 3, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Tri-Tammy <a href="/forum/thread/73699/upcoming-hm-hill-question#post_1997663"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I also have the ability throw in a long (1/2 mile) downhill in my long run. It would be at mile 3.5. I'm wondering if this would help, or hurt?? (for Matt and Hobey- this is the one we rode down to the trail)
 
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I think it's a good idea to do this but the latest I would do it is 2-3 weeks out of the race itself, maybe the peak week before taper. Downhill running does a number on your quads so you want to be sure to have time to recover.

juliemboyle · May 4, 2011

I did want to chime in on what 4BM said. A few years ago I started power walking all steep hills instead of "running" them. Found that I could basically walk at the same speed I could run but I exerted much less energy and the break gave me a great umph in my legs as soon as the hill was done..............

Tri-Tammy · May 4, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by juliemboyle <a href="/forum/thread/73699/upcoming-hm-hill-question#post_1997747"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a> I did want to chime in on what 4BM said. A few years ago I started power walking all steep hills instead of "running" them. Found that I could basically walk at the same speed I could run but I exerted much less energy and the break gave me a great umph in my legs as soon as the hill was done..............
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The RD of the race actually suggests walking the hills out of the creek beds so as to not go anaerobic. I just want to make sure that I can take advantage of the free speed on the way down! <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;">

donskiman · May 4, 2011

You've already received some solid advice for downhill training. While you can still get some benefit for this race, it's a good idea to put this kind of thing into your regular training regimen year around. Running up and down hills helps build lots of leg strength. Learning to really let it fly on a steep downhill can take a person out of their comfort zone and out them on the edge of being out of control. It can be a scary feeling!
 
Contrary to what some have written, I find it far better to maintain a running motion when going uphill. Even a slow running motion will generate more speed than walking. I used this to go past numerous people in my recent trail race and have been doing this for several years. If you have knowledge of the course you can use it to mentally push yourself. That quarter mile of uphill becomes a 3 minute effort for example. Power over the top and don't back off the effort until you're solidly on your way back down, and only then just long enough to get a small bit of rest.
 
Have fun out there!

Upcoming HM hill question

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