Runners Forum - Kick Runners banner
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<p>Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona) shot and killed at town-hall event in Tuscon.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/?hpt=T2" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/?hpt=T2</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>So sad.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
<p>Let's hope this was simply a random act and not a targeted political act.</p>
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,938 Posts
<p>I will confess a thought that I am not sure I understand.  When news broke (and we don't know your congressional reps up here) I thought "God I hope she's not a Republican".  If she had been Republican it would have been made into this big Tea Party thing.  So I have a bit of self-loathing for that.   Perhaps the opposite is true, I am sure people will blame the right for this.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't think that this is political, I think it's some nut job who had a vendetta against her and her office staff.</p>
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,938 Posts
<p>Watching live feed on CNN.  The local Tucson station?  KGUN.  How ironic.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Looks like she has died, but there are conflicting reports.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
<p>She is alive and responding to commands.  There is a suspect in custody.  We'll just have to wait to actually get concrete details as to what has happened.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
546 Posts
<p>Too bad the m-f'er didn't fall down some stairs and hit his head going into the police cruiser.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Our police and law enforcement have some incredible self control.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>A nine year old girl?  WTF?????<br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>GaReb770</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/72062/tragic-just-tragic#post_1975177"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>She is alive and responding to commands.  There is a suspect in custody.  We'll just have to wait to actually get concrete details as to what has happened.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br>
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
<p>I get a laugh when people seem to follow the events on forums rather than turning on the TV...then I remember often people aren't around a TV and if they are at work they may not be able to surf the net freely.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
<p>Believe it or not, because I choose not to have cable at home and use only the public airwaves I don't have access to CNN or Faux News.   Thus I have to follow events on the forums. <span><img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;"></span></p>
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,938 Posts
<p>No TV here either.  Just the web.</p>
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,202 Posts
<p>Oddly enough CTV says 5 dead, CBC and CNN say 6 dead. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is so sad and horrible.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
<p>The game was broadcast on one of the local channels so I got to watch them dismantle.  Not pretty, but that's why it's a sport. </p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,884 Posts
<p>Odd.  I thought one of the big reasons why states like AZ have virtually NO restictions on firearms was so that ciitizens could gun down a nut like this before he was able to shoot 23 people.  (if that number i heard is correct, he must have re-loaded).  I'm sure they'll find that this kid's right wing rantings were just far enough over the edge that they can declare him "crazy".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>On another note - look for crazy increases in security for federal courts.  They go bonkers when a judge is even threatened and with one shot to death ... even in a grocery store .... there will be changes.  Word to the unemployed - try the US marshals service.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>yar</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,062 Posts
<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>yar</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/72062/tragic-just-tragic#post_1975317"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Odd.  I thought one of the big reasons why states like AZ have virtually NO restictions on firearms was so that ciitizens could gun down a nut like this before he was able to shoot 23 people.  (if that number i heard is correct, he must have re-loaded).  I'm sure they'll find that this kid's right wing rantings were just far enough over the edge that they can declare him "crazy".</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>It may be legal but there's still a huge social stigma even for gun rights advocates like me to being *that guy* packing heat at the grocery store.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't think the kid's views can be legitimately characterized as right-wing at this point, can they? <a href="http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php" target="_blank">http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>At best, I'd say the jury's still out on that point.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
<p>The point is not whether the guy is left, right, or neutral.  It's  all these talk shows advocating how crazy other people are because they disagree with them that encourages such acts.  Palin's "crosshairs", Herman Cane's slurring of the word "liberals" when speaking about them and both Hannity and Boortz habit of referring to Democrats and liberals as sociopaths rather than simply as people with a different point of view.  Prior to talk show radio liberals and conservatives did talk to each other and compromise to get things done.  With the advent of talk shows, Hannity in particular, if one does not toe the line of being a "Ronald Reagan conservative" (which is an oxymoron in itself) one is  not a true American. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thus, I don't see the shooter's political persuasion really matters as much as how much was he influenced by talk show radio.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
546 Posts
<p>You know what?  A cop in Baltimore died Fri nite/Sat doing his job.  Yet no one gives a flying flip.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That is also a tragedy.  </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think this kid was not right mentally and was looking to shoot someone that would give him notoriety and attention.  If accounts are accurate,</p>
<p>he didn't think he'd survive this and left "goodbyes".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I really don't think it's about politics, either.</p>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,884 Posts
<p><br>
You're right.  That IS a tragedy.  The problem is that so many people die senselessly in this country that it often takes a multiple murder or the death of somebody famous/prominant in order to stand out and "make news".  I will say, the several cops who have died on duty down here in DFW since I've been here have been major news stories for multiple days.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>On the political issue - I disagree.  This kid was probably not capable of complex political thought at this point, but vicerally - he was aware that that Democratic Jew congresswoman was the "bad guy".<br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>airehead</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/72062/tragic-just-tragic#post_1975676"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>You know what?  A cop in Baltimore died Fri nite/Sat doing his job.  Yet no one gives a flying flip.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That is also a tragedy.  </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think this kid was not right mentally and was looking to shoot someone that would give him notoriety and attention.  If accounts are accurate,</p>
<p>he didn't think he'd survive this and left "goodbyes".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I really don't think it's about politics, either.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,062 Posts
<p>It's interesting to note you only cite right-wing examples of inflammatory dialogue, even though history is certainly rife with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ayers" target="_blank">examples of left-wing political violence</a>. I distinctly remember casual calls for Bush's assassination when he was in office, in the old CH, no less.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Regardless of Loughner's politics or mental state, the distinction I think it is important to make is between those who would use violence and murder as means to their ends and those who would not.<br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>GaReb770</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/72062/tragic-just-tragic#post_1975673"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>The point is not whether the guy is left, right, or neutral.  It's  all these talk shows advocating how crazy other people are because they disagree with them that encourages such acts.  Palin's "crosshairs", Herman Cane's slurring of the word "liberals" when speaking about them and both Hannity and Boortz habit of referring to Democrats and liberals as sociopaths rather than simply as people with a different point of view.  Prior to talk show radio liberals and conservatives did talk to each other and compromise to get things done.  With the advent of talk shows, Hannity in particular, if one does not toe the line of being a "Ronald Reagan conservative" (which is an oxymoron in itself) one is  not a true American. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thus, I don't see the shooter's political persuasion really matters as much as how much was he influenced by talk show radio.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,062 Posts
<p> The best <a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/75112.html" target="_blank">response</a> to the blame-the-right opportunism I've seen yet:</p>
<p> </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">
<div>
<p>Jacob Weisberg of Slate knows who’s really to <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2280711/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#003366;">blame</span></a> for the attempted murder of a congresswoman:</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<p><em>At the core of the far right’s culpability is its ongoing attack on the legitimacy of U.S. government—a venomous campaign not so different from the backdrop to the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Then it was focused on “government bureaucrats” and the ATF. This time it has been more about Obama’s birth certificate and health care reform. In either case, it expresses the dangerous idea that the federal government lacks valid authority. It is this, rather than violent rhetoric per se, that is the most dangerous aspect of right-wing extremism.</em></p>
<p> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>So, if you do not accept the asserted right of a socially parastic group of officials, tax collectors, money-printers, redistributors, spies, regulators, planners, soldiers, jailers, capital punishers, and police–the US government–to rule and spy on every aspect of your life, to seize whatever amount of your property it deems proper, to send you and your children to kill in foreign lands, to read your emails and listen to your phone calls: you foment murder. Does this mean, by the way, that those who promoted the recent aggressive wars of the US government, which have built a mountain of Muslim skulls under the Bushes, Clinton, and Obama, are accessories to murder? Of course not. Anyone killed by the US government deserves it. Anyone seized in secret, renditioned to a federal torture facility, abused and and held in secret or even killed in secret, deserves it. To doubt the validity of such actions by the US government makes you no better than a government-trained bomber who bombed a government building.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In other words, we are to believe that what Murray Rothbard correctly called “a gang of thieves writ large,” the State, owns us. We refuse. And all over America and the world, more and more people, young people, especially, are coming to understand the <a href="http://lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard62.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:#003366;">anatomy of the State</span></a>, and its most filthy activity, <a href="http://lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard26.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:#003366;">mass murder</span></a>. It is the job of anarcho-capitalists and our allies precisely to delegitmatize that locus of aggressive violence, the State. Even our Austrian economics seeks peace and social cooperation above all else. We understand that government harms both, and prosperity, too.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Everyone knows that private criminality is wrong. The far-vaster public criminality, which gave the world more than 100 million murders in just the last century, remains enshrined in too many minds.  Of course, the delegitmization process is, of necessity, non-violent, and not only for religious and other ethical reasons. It is the US government that has the atom bombs, the chemical and biological weapons, the armies, the spies, the secret police, the black ops, the CIA assassins, the mercenaries–a million and one instruments of horror. Even if we wanted to, and we do not, we could not possibly compete on those grounds. However, we have the truth, and when that truth is known and understood, the edifice of aggression can <a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard78.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:#003366;">topple</span></a> over, non-violently. Freedom and peace: that is our hope, that is our prayer, that is our goal.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top