They are pushing me left.

coachie · Oct 5, 2010

The right winger, tea party whacko, send another e-mail spreading propganda people.
 
I'm a centrist. I've always been a centrist. I have always believed both parties were right on some issues. 
 
I leaned more right than left. Always have.
 
But.
 
In the effort to "spread their message" the wing-nuts of the right wing are starting to alienate me.
 
I find myself more and more consciously tuning them out.
 
I'm sick of it.
 
Maybe we need to go to a Unitary type of government, instead of the Federal 2 party system. Because this just ain't working anymore.

rlemert · Oct 5, 2010

Implicit in the success of a democracy is the willingness of the governed to accept that while others may not share their views, all have the shared goal of succeeding as a democracy. If your side loses the election you don't go storming the capital - you accept the defeat and work with the winners to ensure that your views are considered by those in power. Similarly, the winners don't go out and start arbitrarily implementing one-sided policies designed to keep themselves in power - they acknowledge the legitimacy of the other parties viewpoints and try to work with them to incorporate the minority's concerns while remaining true to their own views.
 
 These days the concept of compromise does not compute and a "winner-takes-all" mentality reigns. People can't have a legitimate disagreement on issues - you're either with me and therefore holy, or you're against me and therefore the spawn of Satan. There is no middle ground anymore. People no longer try to counter other's arguments - they demonize the others and avoid explaining why their arguments are wrong - as if proving that the other guy is evil somehow makes you the good guy.
 
 This may be the biggest threat to democracy we have today - people that would destroy it in the guise of saving us from ourselves.

Grizzly · Oct 5, 2010

Funny but you kind of took the words out of my mouth there. Civil discourse has gone the way of the Dodo and the Beothuk Indian. (Look that one up).
 
When I was growing up the Liberal Party would run from the left and govern from the center, and the Progressive Conservatives (how's that for a name?) would run from the right and govern from the center, and while we'd grumble we'd know that the other party wouldn't do anything too stupid - except maybe scrap Canada's fighter jet the Avro Arrow and send their engineers to work on the Apollo program. That still hurts.
 
We had a choice between two reasonable alternatives like:
 
<a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/58675/width/1000/height/800/flags/" target="_blank"><img alt="trudeau-300.jpg" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="14283" data-type="61" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/14283/width/300/height/491" style="; width: 300px; height: 491px"></a>
 
Pierre Trudeau, or,
 
<a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/58677/width/1000/height/800/flags/" target="_blank"><img alt="10picsstanfield.jpg" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="14284" data-type="61" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/14284/width/300/height/500" style="; width: 300px; height: 500px"></a>
 
Bob Stanfield. Two distinguished politicians and leaders of their respective parties. Some consider Stanfield to be the best PM we never had.
 
Now you have Canada's New Conservative Government (tm) which governs wherever Stephen Harper tells it to and no questions asked, particularly by members of the party:
 
 <a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/58683/width/1000/height/800/flags/" target="_blank"><img alt="Stephen-Harper-Cowboy.jpg" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="14286" data-type="61" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/14286/width/348/height/418" style="; width: 348px; height: 418px"></a>
 
With the Liberals unsure of whether to run from the left or right, but damned sure that they're an alternative, alright and that Harper is the spawn of the devil.
 
<a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/58685/width/1000/height/800/flags/" target="_blank"><img alt="ignatieff01b.jpg" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="14287" data-type="61" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/14287/width/375/height/500" style="; width: 375px; height: 500px"></a>
 
 
Where has the decorum gone?

duckgeek · Oct 5, 2010

When they eulogized my Dad at his funeral back in 1996 the head of the local Democratic Party and teacher union spoke of the time when they were having a rough time finding a place to hold their meetings. At the time Dad owned a department/shoe store in town which had more sq. ft than any other business except the local grocery. At bowling league one Sunday night he heard of the problem his friends were having and he promptly called the very next morning to offer his showroom to the Democrats to hold their meetings evenings after business hours were up. 
 
Jim was surprised to hear from Dad and he said, "Wow, Bob, that's great. How much do you think it will cost?" to which Dad said "Nothing, of course." Jim said "But Bob, you're a big Republican - everybody knows that!" and Dad reportedly replied "Jim, we're two sides of the same coin. I'm only doing my patriotic duty to help you conduct your rightful business. Let me know if there's any other way I can help."
 
And that's the way it should be. 
 
Fuck those assholes who try to turn it into a cockfight.

altoids · Oct 6, 2010

Awesome. 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by duckgeek <a href="/forum/thread/70492/they-are-pushing-me-left#post_1951756"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> When they eulogized my Dad at his funeral back in 1996 the head of the local Democratic Party and teacher union spoke of the time when they were having a rough time finding a place to hold their meetings. At the time Dad owned a department/shoe store in town which had more sq. ft than any other business except the local grocery. At bowling league one Sunday night he heard of the problem his friends were having and he promptly called the very next morning to offer his showroom to the Democrats to hold their meetings evenings after business hours were up. 
 
Jim was surprised to hear from Dad and he said, "Wow, Bob, that's great. How much do you think it will cost?" to which Dad said "Nothing, of course." Jim said "But Bob, you're a big Republican - everybody knows that!" and Dad reportedly replied "Jim, we're two sides of the same coin. I'm only doing my patriotic duty to help you conduct your rightful business. Let me know if there's any other way I can help."
 
And that's the way it should be. 
 
Fuck those assholes who try to turn it into a cockfight.
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</div>

GaReb770 · Oct 6, 2010

I find myself moving further and further away from the Democrat's although I'm not embracing the Republican Party either. There are times I think both are bad for the country and only doing what they think is in the best interest of their respective parties.

coachie · Oct 6, 2010

This! This! This!
 
I flipping hate them, and their whole tit for tat attitude. It has gotten old.
 
If other voters out there are feeling like us, and I bet there are some.... it may be time for a third party to rise up. It has happened before. The problem is, the way the House and Senate are structured it really limits the power a 3rd party can have.
<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by GaReb770 <a href="/forum/thread/70492/they-are-pushing-me-left#post_1951899"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> I find myself moving further and further away from the Democrat's although I'm not embracing the Republican Party either. There are times I think both are bad for the country and only doing what they think is in the best interest of their respective parties.
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purple hayes · Oct 6, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by rlemert <a href="/forum/thread/70492/they-are-pushing-me-left#post_1951714"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> Implicit in the success of a democracy is the willingness of the governed to accept that while others may not share their views, all have the shared goal of succeeding as a democracy. If your side loses the election you don't go storming the capital - you accept the defeat and work with the winners to ensure that your views are considered by those in power. Similarly, the winners don't go out and start arbitrarily implementing one-sided policies designed to keep themselves in power - they acknowledge the legitimacy of the other parties viewpoints and try to work with them to incorporate the minority's concerns while remaining true to their own views.
 
 These days the concept of compromise does not compute and a "winner-takes-all" mentality reigns. People can't have a legitimate disagreement on issues - you're either with me and therefore holy, or you're against me and therefore the spawn of Satan. There is no middle ground anymore. People no longer try to counter other's arguments - they demonize the others and avoid explaining why their arguments are wrong - as if proving that the other guy is evil somehow makes you the good guy.
 
 This may be the biggest threat to democracy we have today - people that would destroy it in the guise of saving us from ourselves.
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 Good stuff. I wish more people felt that way (or were as vocal as the extremes are about it).

jrjo · Oct 6, 2010

I just want somebody that'll stop spending imaginary money. that's my one issue voting from now on. Neither party has proved they can/will/do.

yar · Oct 6, 2010

They don't just demonize the other party. They demonize anyone in their own party who doesn't demonize the other party. Look what the Dems did to Lieberman and how the Goppers call anyone who doesn't foam at the mouth a "RINO". The paranoia has reached Jonestown levels.
 
btw, jrjo, money is an abstract concept. In reality, it's all imaginary. 
 
yar

jcumming · Oct 6, 2010

Campaigning now goes on full-time in the US which is a major change from days gone by.
 
In olden days (like before Ronald Reagan) when you won the election you governed and if you lost you took a break for a couple of years and began planning strategy for a 4 or 6 month campaign from primary to election.
 
Now you start campaigning during the opponent's victory speech and a lot of that involves ripping the snot out of the person before they have acted and NEVER acknowledging that they could do anything right.
 
I beleive people will tire of it eventually.....well I'm sure they are already tired, but all but the whackos on each end will eventually completely ignore it.

SportiGrl · Oct 6, 2010

in a couple minute span during the news this morning there were 2 campaign commercials ... both focused on slamming the opponent ... neither stated what party they represent ... and neither mentioned what they had to bring to the table ...
 
 
what a bunch of crap.
 
 
 
might as well say, "I am a huge sack of shit and have nothing to offer that's worth mentioning, don't want to be held accountable for standing for anything but still think you should vote against so and so because I made a commercial trying to paint them as the anti-christ."

Clg311 · Oct 7, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by yar <a href="/forum/thread/70492/they-are-pushing-me-left#post_1951976"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> They don't just demonize the other party. They demonize anyone in their own party who doesn't demonize the other party. Look what the Dems did to Lieberman and how the Goppers call anyone who doesn't foam at the mouth a "RINO". The paranoia has reached Jonestown levels.
 
btw, jrjo, money is an abstract concept. In reality, it's all imaginary. 
 
yar
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Poor Joe. <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad2.gif" title=""> Anti-war democrats voted for Ned Lamont in the Democrat primary. Lieberman ran as an Independent in the general election and won with Republican votes. Democracy in action. Oh the horror! How is in any way comparable to the tea parties?

Ileneforward · Oct 7, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by purple hayes <a href="/forum/thread/70492/they-are-pushing-me-left#post_1951958"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> Good stuff. I wish more people felt that way (or were as vocal as the extremes are about it).
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I agree with you purple hayes!

They are pushing me left.

coachie

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rlemert

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