The War on Drugs

kerfwango · Jan 25, 2011

Looking for some dialogue on the WOD. Yes, the poll answers are too cut-and-dried to allow for nuance so let's see what y'all have to say about the legalities of illicit drugs, prosecution, punishment, treatment, and, most importantly, your reasons for your positions on the issue.
 
I'm a hardcore libertarian so my answer is an unqualified 'No', However, I'd like to read some thoughtful responses from the spectrum of opinions and see where the conversation takes us.

merigayle · Jan 25, 2011

I support the war on drugs to a point, cause I am 110% for legalization of marijuana. I do think other drugs still need a war on them though

Does that make sense?

mrscoby78 · Jan 25, 2011

I say no.
 
I'm for legalizing pot. On the whole, I think if you wanna kill yourself with that crap, have at it. But, I fully support prosecuting anyone giving/selling to minors. And I support drug testing those on public assistance (Kentucky is looking a bill on this now). You shouldn't be allowed to use welfare $ to buy drugs, and you shouldn't get medicaid to pay for the fallout from your drug use either.

airehead · Jan 25, 2011

Please take my answers fwtw. I am middle-class white girl who has never taken an illegal drug, and the closest I've been to pot is at a concert.
 
That being said, I believe that the WoD, while admirable, is an invented situation in order to stir the public's attention.
 
From what I can see in my studies, we are no closer to abolishing drugs or beating them than we ever were. I think the corruption
goes too high up in too many places. (I am also south american, so I know government corruption.)
 
I also believe drugs are very, very destructive and can destroy lives and entire families. But, so can alcohol and it's 
completely legal.
 
 
My opinions on legalization of marijuana: I think it's potentially a great idea, but one concern is people who lace their marijuana
with more insidious things. (as is happening in a section of Illinois--I was told by a cop friend)
 
Recently I was wondering if our justice system could handle the system done by a European counterpart where they forgive your first sentence of two years and under. That would allow a lot of first-timers with minor possession issues to get a second chance.
 
We are also seeing an increase in females in prison due to drug charges.
 
As far as treatment goes, if a person doesn't want treatment, no amount will work.
 
 
I have serious rage at those bastards who introduce and hook our young kids on drugs.
 
I usually find I disagree with Christopher Hitchens, but this article was very interesting:
 
<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1347546/Arizona-shooting-Jared-Loughners-smile-says-fear-little-packets-madness.html" target="_blank">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1347546/Arizona-shooting-Jared-Loughners-smile-says-fear-little-packets-madness.html</a>
 
As far as prosecution and imprisonment, we are still very far from equity in that arena.

kerfwango · Jan 25, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by merigayle <a href="/forum/thread/72338/the-war-on-drugs#post_1979468"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> I support the war on drugs to a point, cause I am 110% for legalization of marijuana. I do think other drugs still need a war on them though

Does that make sense?
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It absolutely makes sense. Would you care to elaborate on the basis for you support for other drugs remaining illegal? Not (necessarily) looking for a debate or to change anyone's mind. Just curious about the basis for everyone's belief.

Mrtambalynman · Jan 25, 2011

I don't think that the war on drugs has been effective because its only created a very lucrative black market, increased policing and property crime significantly and increased drug market related violence. Since prohibiltion has obviously failed, I think its time to try another approach. Legalize all drugs and tax their consumption. Update our laws to prohibit their use in public, while operating vehicles, etc. Then put into place a strong anti-drug marketing program similar to the anti-smoking one and focus on supporting addiction treatment. I think we would have much safer communities and be ahead from a tax spending perspective. I am leery about some of these designer drugs like Meth - they seem really scary to me, but prohibition isn't working and I really don't see legalizeation changing public behaviour in a significant way. Anyhow, I see it more as a public and social health issue, rather than a criminal issue.

runfishhunt · Jan 25, 2011

I support the concept but I also support legalization of weed. 
Drugs like meth & crack serve no useful purpose imo and shouldn't be legalized.

gretriever · Jan 25, 2011

The saying goes that in the 60s, we had the War on Poverty. And Poverty won.
 
Same here, regrettably.

coachie · Jan 28, 2011

1. Go ahead and legalize pot. Treat it like you do alcohol/tobacco...have an age limit, tax it, and have government regulation of it.
 
2. Same thing with Mushrooms/Peyote...things that grow naturally.
 
3. Meth/Crack/Heroin/ other hard drugs.
I'm torn. 
 
I do not feel there is anything that comes from this stuff except addiction.
 
However, like Steve said above, "the War" doesn't seem to be preventing people from using.
 
So, I think I'd like to see more money put into prevention and treatment for users.
 
And I'd like to see Major penalties for suppliers/traffickers/manufacturers. 
If someone is convicted of murder, they get life in prison? Well, if you are providing drugs to someone who dies from drug abuse, you should get the same amount of prosecution.

Lincoln · Jan 28, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by runfishhunt <a href="/forum/thread/72338/the-war-on-drugs#post_1979507"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I support the concept but I also support legalization of weed. 
Drugs like meth & crack serve no useful purpose imo and shouldn't be legalized.
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 What useful purpose does weed serve? Or alcohol?
 
There is a line in my head between pot and meth/ crack/ cocaine, just as there is between alcohol and pot, but these are socially designated lines, and I'm aware of that.
 
None of these things are serving any useful purpose, so I would think it's either ban them all or legalize them all.
 
And since, 1) I don't like this is something the gov't can legislate (as much as I think some members of the gov't would like to try) and, 2) I don't agree with the gov't even trying to legislate it, and 3) you can have my Maker's Mark when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers, then I guess I have to vote legalize them all.

Rainey · Jan 28, 2011

My wife and I argue when this comes up my point, do you know anyone who dosn't do drugs because they are illegal? I really doubt that suddenly your average jane or Joe will say "Man, I was waiting for them to legalize heroin so I can shoot up, lets go"
 
Give addicts treatment. make people come into a clinic to get their fix, driving or doing any safety thing like flying etc. will still be illegal while intoxicated. It would also be illegal to sell on the streets. But why would someone do that when they get a free fix?
Saving a a lot of enforcement money send it to treatment
 
 
what usefull purpose does alcohol serve? wine goes with food improves the total experience, contains helpfull chemicals for your health, lowers stress, carbohydrate replacement, antiimmflamatory, helps keep the population count up etc.

mrscoby78 · Jan 28, 2011

The issue I have with meth is that it's manufacture is incredibly dangerous. Along with the risk of explosion, those toxic chemicals are in the air and can be inhaled, They can be absorbed into the skin by touching something that the meth has touched, not touching the meth, but touching a countertop where the chemicals have been for example. Even when it is no longer being manufactured, the chemicals basically seep into the walls and a hazmat unit has to come in to clean the place.
 
I agree that it does create a very lucurative black market. In the case of meth, tracking purchases of OTC meds like sudafed, while meant to discourage purchase and track possible drug manufacturers, has in reality allowed poor folks and college kids to buy cold meds and resell them to meth-makers at a huge profit.
 
I also agree that legalization will not suddenly make non-users into users. More likey the opposite. For some, the illegality is part of the enjoyment. 
 
Legalize it, tax it, control it.

PeterP · Jan 28, 2011

I say the decision about the War on Drugs should be left up to the victims of drug-induced or drug-related crime.

airehead · Jan 28, 2011

Actually, I would try marijuana if it were legalized. I heard it is really good for the type of pain I have. I would either have to do it away from Mr aire or after he retires. (pesky military rules.) lol
 
But as far as heroin/meth/coke: those scare the bejeebus out of me. 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Rainey <a href="/forum/thread/72338/the-war-on-drugs#post_1980237"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> My wife and I argue when this comes up my point, do you know anyone who dosn't do drugs because they are illegal? I really doubt that suddenly your average jane or Joe will say "Man, I was waiting for them to legalize heroin so I can shoot up, lets go"
 
Give addicts treatment. make people come into a clinic to get their fix, driving or doing any safety thing like flying etc. will still be illegal while intoxicated. It would also be illegal to sell on the streets. But why would someone do that when they get a free fix?
Saving a a lot of enforcement money send it to treatment
 
 
what usefull purpose does alcohol serve? wine goes with food improves the total experience, contains helpfull chemicals for your health, lowers stress, carbohydrate replacement, antiimmflamatory, helps keep the population count up etc.
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GaReb770 · Jan 28, 2011

The Europeans seem to handle the problem(s) with drugs much better than the U.S. The number of persons we have incarcerated for non-violent crimes simply because they use/sell drugs is a waste of money. Fine them and/or give them community service but unless someone has committed a violent crime while on drugs I see no reason for locking them up. Waste of taxpayer's money. Now if they commit violent acts while on drugs I think that's when we should reserve them a bed in the pokey, just as for any other criminal who commits violent crimes.
 
Don't you know that if alcohol (for drinking) and tobacco were discovered today instead of a few centuries ago, we would be banning their use as a controlled substance. And we saw how well prohibition worked in the 1920's. Or, at least I'm old enough to remember Prohibition. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;">

Rainey · Jan 28, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by airehead <a href="/forum/thread/72338/the-war-on-drugs#post_1980302"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> Actually, I would try marijuana if it were legalized. I heard it is really good for the type of pain I have. I would either have to do it away from Mr aire or after he retires. (pesky military rules.) lol
 
But as far as heroin/meth/coke: those scare the bejeebus out of me. 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Rainey <a href="/forum/thread/72338/the-war-on-drugs#post_1980237"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> My wife and I argue when this comes up my point, do you know anyone who dosn't do drugs because they are illegal? I really doubt that suddenly your average jane or Joe will say "Man, I was waiting for them to legalize heroin so I can shoot up, lets go"
 
Give addicts treatment. make people come into a clinic to get their fix, driving or doing any safety thing like flying etc. will still be illegal while intoxicated. It would also be illegal to sell on the streets. But why would someone do that when they get a free fix?
Saving a a lot of enforcement money send it to treatment
 
 
what usefull purpose does alcohol serve? wine goes with food improves the total experience, contains helpfull chemicals for your health, lowers stress, carbohydrate replacement, antiimmflamatory, helps keep the population count up etc.
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Are you serious? I've never heard of anyone with that opinion but I'm here in California. Probably every adult I know has tried majaruana maybe with a couple of exceptions. I don't care for it I just drink wine and beer.
 
 Here if you need or don't need a prescription all you have to do is walk down Venice beach and 3 seperate people will ask you to sign up. It happens to all of on our wednesday group run from MDR through venice. The list of approved conditions amazing! everyone has one of them.

Tech Tee · Jan 28, 2011

Legalize it. At least Marijuana.
 
I read a letter to the editor the other day and, while it references a horrible tragedy, it was just one of the stupidest things I ever read.
 
The gist was this...woman's friend's son was killed by a guy who was driving under the influence of pot.
 
Terrible tragedy.
 
But...does this woman really think that is marijuana was made legal, that it would be legal to drive under the infuence? I'm sure (maybe I'm wrong, but I couldn't imagine that I am) that if any drug was made legal, that it would be illegal to drive under the influence. As a matter of fact, it already is. 
 
How is this any different than alcohol?
 
Now, let's move on to a few other areas...how many of you have, know, or have seen someone high on pot?
 
Have they ever erupted into violence? Gotten into a bar fight? Picked up a gun and shot someone? Beat their wife or kids (or the other way round)? I'm guessing in some rare cases, these things could happen, but, I've never seen it (not that I've ever seen anyone beat thier wife either).
 
Do people get the "DTs" when they go cold turkey from somking pot? (as you can with alcohol) Can people DIE from withdrawl sypmtoms from quitting pot? (as you can with alcohol)
 
Either legalize marijuana, stop making smokers criminals, reap the financial benefits of the crop, regulate it highly...or, make alcohol illegal. Oh wait, we already tried it. When prohibition began, there were 15,000 taverns in the US. A few years later, there were an estimated 30,000 speakeasy's in the US. Alcohol consumption did drop, but, the rate of alcoholism went UP. (one thing that cracks me up, and mirrors today...you could get a Dr's note to drink, just like medicinal marijuana)
 
By the way, if pot were made legal, I wouldn't use it, so, that's not my motivation.

airehead · Jan 28, 2011

I read recently, you can't o.d. on pot.
 
And Rainey, I'm dead serious.

gumbee · Jan 28, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by mrscoby78 <a href="/forum/thread/72338/the-war-on-drugs#post_1980286"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> 
I also agree that legalization will not suddenly make non-users into users. More likey the opposite.
 
 
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I would think there would be a large(ish) number of folks that would think, "hey it's legal now, I think I will try" and meth is near a 100% addiction rate.

gumbee · Jan 28, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Tech Tee <a href="/forum/thread/72338/the-war-on-drugs#post_1980351"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> 
Can people DIE from withdrawl sypmtoms from quitting pot? 
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yes

The War on Drugs

Do you support the War on Drugs (in general)?

Yes

No

kerfwango

merigayle

mrscoby78

airehead

kerfwango

Mrtambalynman

runfishhunt

gretriever

coachie

Lincoln

Rainey

mrscoby78

PeterP

airehead

GaReb770

Rainey

Tech Tee

airehead

gumbee

gumbee

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