Runners Forum - Kick Runners banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, those that know me know I struggle in the water, those that don't know me - I struggle in the water. If you go to my Active site you can see some above water videos from last week. One comment (given several times) was 'You need to slow the arms down and increase your glide'.<br><br>
So the question I have is where does the glide come from? Are rather, which part of the stroke needs to be longer? Does an increase of stroke length come from slower recovery? Or from an actual pause somewhere? I am thinking that the pull needs to be virtually the same. Is that right?<br><br>
My 25 meter stroke count is 25. One meter per stroke? Not so good. Obviously this means my pull is also not perfect. I do catch-up drills in an effort to help this, and am trying to figure out the tickle and maybe some sculling. As soon as I get all the water out of my sinuses from last night's attempt, I will try again!<br><br>
-Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,969 Posts
Have you read the TI books or seen the videos. I would stop swimmimg for 2-3 weeks and get some drills and just do the drills for the whole pool session for those weeks. Then at the end of that time start putting it all back together into a new stroke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have read some TI, but no videos. One issue I am having, now that I am focusing more and more on drills, is proper execution of the drills. I struggle to even do some of them.<br><br>
I will be having a couple week break coming up due to vacation, and I will do some more pure drill work focused workouts when I get back in the water for a couple weeks following. Will see how that goes.<br><br>
Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
605 Posts
I don't consider myself a proponent of adding glide to get more distance out of each stroke. Instead, I think you should concentrate on the underwater stroke mechanics. That means focusing body position (most important), high elbows, and the general movement of your arms through the water. You can pick up a copy of <i>Swimming Fastest</i> by Maglischo if you want a great book on swimming.<br><br>
Body position is most important because if your head is high and your feet dropping, you are creating a lot of drag and that is what is causing your high stroke rate.<br><br>
If, however, you are convinced you want to add some glide to your stroke, I think the place to do it is right after your hand enters the water. Extend your are out in front, pay attention to your body position, and then start the catch.<br><br>
Victor
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Victor, yeah I probably phrased it badly. I am really simply talking about length per stroke.<br><br>
But while I am extending my right hand out in front, that left it still cranking through the cycle. This must be where front quadrant swimming comes in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,032 Posts
BTW, I read this article often when I'm not swimming just to constantly visually and mentally reinforce and practice the stroke.<br><br><a href="http://www.active.com/story.cfm?STORY_ID=8559&NUM=1&CHECKSSO=1&CATEGORY=Swimming&RESET=0" target="_blank">http://www.active.com/story.cfm?STOR...imming&RESET=0</a>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,199 Posts
I am new to swimming. This discussion raises a question. What is the ideal stroke count for 25 meters? I will have to try it next week and see where I am.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,969 Posts
Dave<br><br>
Everyone's stroke count is different. When i first started in swimming in August. My stroke count was 26. I bought the TI book took a TI workshop and in 2 days at the workshop my stroke count fell to 14.<br>
I have still tried to better that and have had a couple of 12's and even a 10 stroke lap one time.<br>
So basically it all depends on your stroke length and stroke rate. Which is different for everyone
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,149 Posts
For me the glide starts at about the time my other hand reaches my hip, and ends (in other words, the next stroke starts) when my recovery hand is about halfway forward.<br><br>
So as my right hand reaches my hip, my left hand is entering the water. Around the time my right hand is halfway forward, my left hand starts its stroke.<br><br>
I think people get too hung up on stroke count, but it can be a very useful tool, as in this case where a very high count is an indication of a lack of glide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,481 Posts
I'm not a swim coach, but I feel better in the water than anywhere else. So, be sure to take this with a grain of salt if appropriate.<br><br>
When I think about lengthening my stroke (note, not ADD glide....), I think about finishing my stroke more fully. The tarzan drill that CS suggested will help with this. You want your hand to leave the water more by your hip than your waist. Think also about having your thumb brushing your hip as it leaves the water (elbow first).<br><br>
Also, the more your rotate along your long axis the bigger "bite" you can take out of the water. Try this to see if it makes sense.....<br>
Sit and reach in front of you toward the computer monitor with one hand. Note how far you can reach without bending forward at your hips. Now, rotate your shoulders and note how far you can reach. You still haven't bent forward, but you can reach forward more. The same works when you swim.<br><br>
If you reach in front of you with your shoulders square to the bottom of the pool (or lake, or beach, or whatever <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">) you can reach x distance. But, if you rotate along your long axis (pretend you're on a spit being roasted)....the top of your head doesn't twist, it's still pointing forward...... your hand will be farther forward toward the other end of the pool.<br><br>
Stitch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah I tried that tarzan drill today. Youch, that one will take some work.<br><br>
OK, I will digest some of these tips and try some things.<br><br>
Thanks all, I'll get back to you.....<br><br>
Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,572 Posts
I have no expertise as I am not a swim coach of any sort, but I have had to do some drills to address this very thing. The one thing that helped me is that my coach explained this more a 'stretching out' your stroke, rather than thinking of it as a glide (not sure that makes sense). Sounds strange, but he told me to think about leaning over and picking something up behind a dresser/table/whatever, to get me thinking about the body rotation involved, and then really reaching/stretching. So you're not really gliding straight out, it's more reaching out and down before your pull. I wish I had some sort of visual on this, as it's a bit difficult to explain in words. But once he demonstrated this, a lightbulb went off for me.<br><br>
I think of that so often in my stroke now, and I really think it helped. I went from about a 22-23 stroke count to about 18-19 (20 if I'm starting to get lazy...) - still trying to get it down to a 16-17!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,481 Posts
Exactly!!<br>
It's that REACH feel....rather than a coasting feel (coasting, like, you're just sorta gliding along). You're reaching far out in front of you, and that turns in to a glide.<br><br>
Stitch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,348 Posts
The best way to increase your glide is to immerse yourself in TI techniques, like others have said. Lowering your strokes per length is going to increase your efficiency, period. The best way to do this is through drilling, mostly KOS (kick on side) drills, and various others, but KOS is key. Actually when you first start with TI techniques its mostly about balance, not pulling and high elbow. That is more of a topic when you start propulsive swimming, once you have good balance and technique.<br><br>
It may be a benefit to find a swim coach who is familiar TI techniques and is ASCA certified. I just say that because I know a guy who is level 4 and they are unbelieveable. But the way he started me on TI was like the karate kid. You do a lot of wax on and wax off at first, never really swim, then all of a sudden it just comes together, when Mr. Miyagi starts throwing punches. I hadn't swam in say 20 years before that and now I'm pretty efficient (SPL 15-16), just need more speed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,348 Posts
One more thing I want to add. I've seen several people try to kick harder, try to get a harder push-off and do all sorts of crazy things to decrease SPL, and in the end they just screw themselves up. You can't cheat. Decrease in stroke rate does not come from slower recovery or any pausing, never pause, the stroke keeps coming, smooth. Its being more relaxed in the recovery, ensuring elbow leads recovery and being relaxed and more balanced (streamlined) during the pull.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top