[jura]

Hi master's swimmers, I thought it would be a good idea to start a separate thread for swimming. Many of us swim regularly, so it would make sense to have a thread where we can talk about everything swimming; trials and tribulations, challanges and breakthroughs, technique and different workouts we do. Come and share. I thought to have a monthly format like the 50's thread; no plans or tallies, just post our swim as it happens and discuss issues that may come up. So what about it?<br>
j

 

[jura]

OK, I start. We had our first master's swim in the new year. It runs twice a week, Tuesday and Thursday evenings.<br>
We had an easier workout today, to ease into it after the holiday. Only four people showed up, so each of us had our own lane! We did:<br><br>
400m swim (sw)<br>
4x75 like 25kick with board/25sw/25 with pullbuoy(p)<br>
200p<br>
4x100 like 25sw/25 R hand only/25 L hand only/25sw<br>
10x50 sw w/ somersault at the end <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br>
300p<br><br>
The coach is trying to ease us into doing flip turns. I get them fine about 50% at the time, the other times I get a little disoriented under the water. Hope this will go away with practice...<br>
Happy swimming all,<br>
j

 

[Econo]

Hooray! This will inspire me to get in the pool more often!<br><br>
Thurs: 30 min drills on my own. Finally, a post-rash swim on my own!<br>
Fri: 30 min swim lesson. Better hand placement. Flunked the open turn drill.

 

[TheProFromDover]

oh my, too many places to post!<br>
2500 yds today. Let's see....<br><br>
250 WU<br>
100 free, 100 kick, 200 pull, 100 ?<br>
5x (100 free, 50 kick, 50 drill, 50 pull)<br>
200 free<br>
2x100 free<br>
100 CD<br><br>
All laps except kick and drills under 60 sec.

 

[jura]

Hi Econo, I am happy that you are inspired to do more pool time! <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> What is the open turn drill?<br>
Hey Pro, I agree, it can get too much with all the different threads sometime. I thought it would help swimmers find the swimming related posts if they're in a separate thread. This is experimental, though, it will only keep going if there is enough interest.<br>
BTW, what drill did you do?<br>
j

 

[CassadAAmius]

Great idea for a thread, jura!<br><br>
I did 3000 yards today:<br>
1000 w/u<br>
10x(100 hard, 50 ez) on a 2:55 cycle, with the 100s in an avg. of 1:38<br>
Then 100 ez, 200 with hand paddles, 200 steady to finish.<br><br>
I really should practice flip turns more. I know that you're supposed to hit off the wall with your toes pointing up, and twist into the tummy-down position during and after the push. But I find that disorienting, and tend to roll into the down position before the push. The turns come out slower that way, but more importantly I can't deliver a good solid BAM! to impress/intimidate my lane-mate the way Mustang Sally can.

 

[Econo]

jura, I talked with my swim coach and we agreed that with only 1 pool-based tri this year (it's a 50m pool), I can get by with just an open turn, not a flip turn.<br><br>
Nevertheless, the speedy way to do an open turn is not what I'm used to.<br><br>
Econo's Method:<br>
Reach pool wall. Turn around, face back to the pool, gasp for breath, plunge forward and push off hard, gliding past the rope in a streamlined arrow position.<br><br>
Gina's Method:<br>
Reach end of pool with right hand...<br>
simultaneously using left hand to help push body....<br>
backwards into the water (upside down)...<br>
hands in streamline position...<br>
then push off hard, twisting back onto stomach in the streamlined arrow position.<br><br>
Oh gawd, I can't do that! I am incapable of sinking backwards, it seems. Who would have thought an open turn was so hard? Weh.<br><br>
But I did make Coach Gina happy today with correct hand entry today in a drill. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif">

 

[jura]

<b>Dave</b>, I do the exact same thing you do, I turn around first, then push off. But in light of what you said the drill we did yesterday makes more sense to me: we had to do a somersault at the end of ea. 50 and touch the wall with our feet facing upwards, then gently straigten up the legs to "feel the wall" (not pushing off hard). I guess the twisting around after pushing off will be the next lesson...<br><b>Econo</b>, I have been doing open turns all this time without knowing they're called that, duh!<img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> Mostly I do your version, that one little gulp of air feels so good, something to look forward to at the end of the length.. Gina's version sounds a lot like a flip turn; does that twisting back onto stomach happen under water or on the surface?<br>
BTW, do you guys use the dolphin kick after the push off? I do...<br>
j<br><br>
PS.: I won't rest until I get my BAM!<img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif">

 

[Cashmason]

No swimming for until after the race Sunday. Unless swimming will be faster than running the race with this rain. The race is mostly downhill, so maybe just floating with the current would work.

 

[CassadAAmius]

No, and I know that that's another thing real swimmers do. I would be curious to know the technical rationale for it.<br><br>
I haven't focussed too much on turn technique, because it's irrelevant for open water swimming. But improving the turns would make the lap swimming I do 98% of the time go better...<br><br>
Do you all do kick drills? I am absolutely terrible at them. When I try to kick behind a kickboard, I get exhausted and go almost nowhere. Real swimmers can motor up and down the pool as fast as I can actually swim. How do they do it? Swim Coach Bethany says that runners are bad at kicking because we aren't used to pointing our toes, but there's got to be more to it than that. I expect that my dolphin kick would be just as bad, which is why I haven't tried to incorporate it into my turns. Supposedly the leg kick is also not that important for long-distance open-water swimming... you are supposed to be saving your legs for the bike and the run. But if you could turn 52-second lap pace into 50-second pace through small gains in kick efficiency, that would be good, right?

 

[CassadAAmius]

4000 yards today, mostly steady-paced at 52-54s/lap. Finished with a set of 5x100 in 1:35 on a 2:00 cycle.

 

[jura]

That is a long swim today, Dave! My next swim day is not till Tuesday.<br>
About kicking drills, yes, we do them. Normally after the warm-up we do a variable number of 75's as 25kick, 25 swim, 25pull. That way the kickboard and the pullbuoy will end up at the same place... Sometimes the coach focuses on the kicking and then we do longer segments. I used to be very slow and I used to get cramps in my calf, but lately it got easier. I am still slow, but a faster slow<img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">...<br>
Dolphin kicks are great fun, especially with fins. You can actually go pretty fast with the fins. When I swim alone, I always do a couple of 50's w/ dolphin kicks, 25 on my stomach, 25 on my back; I get a great ab workout that way. I got into the habit of doing a couple after every kick-off when I was watching DD3's swim club practices last year.<br>
BTW, you're right about the open water swimming. All this turn stuff is only relevant in the pool.<br>
j

 

[Sans Souci]

Pardon the lowly Pool Runner buttinski ...<br><br>
J, those calf cramps are likely stemming from the fact that apparently runners have rigid ankles, which is why our kick is poor ... at least initially.<br><br>
(An instructor/really good swimmer told me this about ankle rigidity. I haven't a clue.)

 

[jura]

Soos, so good to see you around here! Jump in, the water is fine!<img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br>
Yeah, you're absolutely right, I heard about this too. Ankles can be especially tight for people like you and me who managed to tear up our ankle ligs in the past. There is a good stretch for the ankles, you prolly know it, but here it is anyways:<br>
Kneel on the floor and sit on your heels japanese style. Put down your hands both sides and a little behind you and tip back until your knees come off the ground. Support your weight on your hands behind you. You'll feel an intense stretch on top of your foot.<br>
I've been doing this on and off for the last year, and it did help. I didn't have a calf cramp for a couple of month now (knocking on wood feverishly<img alt="icon_salut.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_salut.gif"><img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">).<br>
Pop in again, Soos, my fren, any time! We'll save a lane for you...<br>
j

 

[TheProFromDover]

Hi Jura!<br>
I forgot my swim suit and the Westin in LV has a pool!<br>
Dumbdumbdumb.<br>
No complaints about another thread.<br>
Craig

 

[La Tortuga]

Thanks Jura - great idea.<br><br>
I swim at least once a week on Sundays and try one more time during the week. Usually 1,200 to 2,000 yards, depending on what I've been running.<br><br>
It took me a while to get flip turns, but I really love them - honestly I feel they are worth the effort. What si really a blast is flip turns when doing backstroke! Figuring out how to breath on both sides was equally helpful to me. My 100s are a bit slow - 1:40 to 1:44 and I am wondering if I should keep working at getting that distance faster or if I work on 50s and then switch back to 100s if that would be more helpful. Did that make sense??? Its early still ...<br><br>
Pro - it's probably worth buying one - you'll use it eventually.

 

[CassadAAmius]

2000 easy this morning.<br><br>
LaT, unless your 100s are slow because you poop out, switching to 50s probably isn't the answer. Probably there are aspects of your technique you can work on instead. When I got injured and had to take to the pool, I took a few half-hour lessons from a local masters swim coach, and instantly got 15% faster. Fiddling with little things like shoulder rotation, elbow height on the recovery, angle of hand entry, etc etc can make a big difference. A good coach can spot your problems right away and suggest drills or alterations to help fix them.

 

[Mustang Sally]

(I'm back)<br><br>
Thanks for starting this off, Jura. I'm only swimming one day this week, so don't have a workout to post. Flip turns - I learned them as a young swimmer and don't think twice about them any more. I could probably do with some thinking, though. I suspect that they're as antiquated as the rest of my swimming technique and could do with some brushing-up. Will observe my position as I come off the wall on Wednesday and report back.<br><br>
Coach has me swimming between 1500 and 2000 yards once or twice a week as a way to get in an aerobic workout without shin-damaging miles. This week, I'm micro-tapering for a weekend race, so only one swim. Most of my workout main sets are multiple 300s or 400s, and I suspect she really wants me to swim a single 1200 but has had too many "I lost count" workout reports from me. From time to time, she spices things up with little gems like 20x50.<br><br>
Me? I'd like more drills, especially aimed at swimming in a straight line instead of an "S," and getting a nice long reach forward at entry.

 

[Econo]

Oh, I've got drills, baby! Today, another 45 min in the pool; sculling, scooter, 11 catchup, 1-arm salute, freestyle (finally) and some falling backwards to get used to a proper open turn.<br><br>
Nailed the turns today. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br>
16 strokes per length (yards), consistently.<img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br>
But still slower than molasses. <img alt="huh.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/huh.gif"> That's ok, I'm more concerned with technique right now.

 

[Mustang Sally]

16?! Holy cow, you're efficient. I usually come in at 19 or so. (metres)