[caffeinated]

+1<br><br>
I can't see taking a hyper-liberal's opinion of the state of the Republican party very seriously. Would anyone really care to read Limbaugh's opinion of the state of the Democratic party? I read Klein's columns regularly, this time, I'll pass.<br><br>
Here's the bottom line: <i><b>Conservatives outnumber liberals by statistically significant margins in 47 of the 50 states, with the two groups statistically tied in Hawaii, Vermont, and Massachusetts.</b></i><br><a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/122333/Political-Ideology-Conservative-Label-Prevails-South.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.gallup.com/poll/122333/Po...ils-South.aspx</a><br><br>
But:<br><b><i>The fact that conservatives outnumber liberals, however, does not determine the outcome of elections. Moderates, as has been observed many times, hold the balance—which is why the center-right vs. center-left discussion matters—and why the ideology in opposition (as opposed to the party in opposition) can so easily assemble a critical mass that does affect election outcomes.</i></b><br><a href="http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-roff/2009/08/18/us-more-conservative-than-obamas-2008-win-suggests.html" target="_blank">http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-ro...-suggests.html</a><br><br>
So this is a mostly conservative country. Which I think is why there is so much push-back against the health care proposals. And also why there will always be a Republican party, though it will change and evolve.

 

[fatmantrying]

My 2 cents for the GOP.. (like they care <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Laughing">)<br><br>
I think a lot of today's GOP'ers would probably be shocked to find out how many former Republicans voted for Obama. People who still call themselves conservative.<br><br>
They simply don't get why the GOP exodus ever happened and they still think conservative means GOP and following the party line.<br><br>
These same people most likely will go more right than left at the midterms but that doesn't mean they are suddenly getting religion... literally or figuratively... and coming back to the fold. They don't like either party right now and they don't feel either has ever shown they deserve to govern unobstructed by opposition.<br><br>
The opposition to the Democrats and their proposals really needs to get relevant. There is certainly plenty of stuff out there to be relevant about.<br><br>
They need to stop with this whole... "I'm scared that if"... "I fear that if" bullshit. Throttle down the fear... sheesh... We get that your always scared. Did you notice that the message of "Hope" kicked fears ass just recently?<br><br>
Embrace the small business man once again. You are on the verge of losing them big time now and if you do, you'll lose them for several elections.

 

[Xavier Dan Q]

Mo Udall was, to the best of my knowledge, a Democrat.

 

[JackDuggan]

<br><br>
heh<br><br>
I had always just assumed he was a Republican -- maybe because of his religious affiliation.<br><br><br><br>
/JD feelin silly/

 

[jcumming]

I think your stats are on the money, but I also think a lot of people who consider themselves conservative aren't really all that conservative.<br><br>
Lots of them want to get rid of each and every government service that they will never use, but boost the ones they do. They all are conservative in that they want to pay a whole lot less tax, but keep the essential services.<br><br>
Just because someone says they are a conservative (remember waay back in late 2007 when conservative wasn't even a swear word?) sure doesn't mean a conservative politician should count on their vote.<br><br>
The Republican Party will be back...sooner rather than later. as long as some reasonably moderate leadership gets a voice before the people like Glenn Beck drive all but the wingnuts away.<br><br>
You guys only have 2 choices. It's not like Italy where parties come and go like the full moon. Does anybody really want a one party systm? That wouldn't be too conservative.

 

[Xavier Dan Q]

That's OK.<br><br>
I thought maybe you were thinking about someone else and typed his name instead.

 

[bap]

Only a damn liberal east-coast intellectual could make up a word like Nihilist.

 

[MikeWas]

Actually, the party's loss in '06 was mostly due to their loss of credibility that came from the abandonment of what they professed to stand for. Runaway spending and the corruption of being in power - just like the Democratic majority they toppled in 1994 - caused them to lose public support in huge numbers.<br><br>
There's no real leadership coming out of either party right now. The Democrats are at a high water mark. The majorities they have right now are the best they're likely to see for a decade or maybe more, and they still can't pass - or even agree on the broad brush outlines - of the keystone of their agenda, a national health care plan. The "stimulus" - a code word for "spending money we don't have on things we don't need" - isn't working. All the Republicans have to do is avoid the blame for what the Democrats are doing and what they are failing to do.<br><br>
The American people are losing patience, just like they did in 1994. I don't think it'll actually turn over this cycle, but I'll be surprised if the Republicans don't make substantial gains at all levels in the 2010 elections.<br><br>
ETA: The vast majority of people who think the GOP needs to ditch the religious right are the liberal left - the DailyKos crowd. Hardly the people who have the GOP's best interests at heart.

 

[caffeinated]

Republicans who voted for Obama may <i>call</i> themselves conservative, that doesn't mean they really know what conservative means. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/roll_eyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll_eyes"> Either that or they allowed themselves to get caught up in the hype. And that's not a very conservative trait... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Very Happy"><br>
It's not like we weren't out there, every day, talking about how far left Obama really is. But that's a different discussion.<br><br>
The arguments of the Republicans are relevant.<br><br>
As for the fear... Look, possibly I only speak for myself, but when I say "I'm afraid that Obama is going to raise my taxes." What I really mean is "I know Obama is going to raise my taxes." I'm leaving a little room for discussion.<br>
It's really just about being polite.<br><br>
When Sara Palin says she's afraid of death panels, well, that's just politics.<br><br>
I don't see how the Republicans have abandoned the small businessman. Can you explain? And the relevancy thing? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Very Happy">

 

[bap]

We seem to have revised our understanding of conservatism of the last few decades.<br><br>
Conservatism has been defined as "the negation of ideology" and yet its been the Ultra Conservative wing of Republican that's been pushing its ideology.<br><br>
I'd argue that the definition of "conservative" has shifted to the right and that the true, traditional conservatives, on both sides are now described as "moderates".<br><br>
If you look at conservatives in most western countries, they have supported social welfare, financed a government run health service, repealed the death penalty and permitted abortion.<br><br>
Anyone who proposed those policies here may just be called a Socialist.

 

[caffeinated]

So why is their definition of "conservative" automatically the correct one? Sounds to me like those "conservatives" are really liberals pretending.

 

[fox-runr]

we left? or were we left? I feel like the GOP just went a direction in the road and never looked back to see where I was, the left stood next to me and screamed at me to stop standing there in the road like an idiot and turn around. Oh such a grand choice<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Sad">

 

[coacht]

I agree with a lot of what you've said. I think that Obama's worst enemy is his own agenda and there's a decent chance that Republicans will see gains in 2010 despite a lack of leadership at the top of the party.<br><br>
It's the last part that i'll quibble with. There are many many Republicans thatI know who are disillusioned with the religious right and feel that, while they should be a part of the larger Republican party, they should no longer be the ones driving the bus.<br><br>
Being from CT most of my contacts are with CT and NY Republicans and I know that northeastern Republicans are often (to use a certain term....stupidly) maligned by many in the party. I said it above and I'll repeat it here - it was the NE Republicans and the Reagan Democrats that gave the GOP its victories in 80, 84 and 92 and those are the votes that the party ought to be courting.

 

[JackDuggan]

<br><br>
I used to count myself in that Rockefeller Rupublican group (with a fairly liberal social policy lean)<br><br>
What makes you think the party can return to these saner roots? The shot they took to their credability this past decade may not be something that can be overcome.

 

[coacht]

That's pretty much where I am - although I'm all over the place w/r/t social policy depending on the issue.<br><br>
The way I see it there are two options - either switch parties (won't ever happen) or try to fix it from within. I realize that I'm only one person in small state but I'm trying to recruit others who feel the same way. Who knows if it'll work - certainly there needs to be a critical mass who feels the same way before any changes will occur.

 

[jcumming]

Sort of the point. The majority of the US population would probably define themselves as either conservative or liberal and most probably have very little clue what it might truly mean....or what definition they are using for the trendy buzzwords of the past decade or so.<br><br>
In Canada it's quite simple if you align yourself with one of the two major parties.<br><br>
The Conservative Party is slightly liberal<br>
The Liberal Party is slightly more liberal<br><br>
Before Ronald Reagan's days I can't recall anyone in the general public in the US self-identifying as conservative or liberal. Back then I think they were just Americans.<br><br>
Anthem for the next decade:<br><b>Proud to be a _Conservative _Liberal (sing one only)</b><br><b>Cuz at Least I know I'm free</b>

 

[fatmantrying]

I wish you luck. The people running the party here are for the most part some of the worst elements of the new Republican party. In 2002 the Republicans in Texas approved a state party platform that declares the United States a "Christian nation" and seeks to "dispel the myth of the separation of church and state." Further wording insinuates no money will be loaned to non Christians.<br><br>
I feel as strongly about separation of church and state as I do the second amendment. It's brutal here. Texas has it's own pledge that they say in school every morning.... it didn't have the words "under God" In it so you know that had to be fixed via the state legislature. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/roll_eyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll_eyes"><br><br>
And now.... <b><a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-8280-Columbia-Evangelical-Examiner~y2009m8d18-Texas-schools-required-to-offer-Bible-course-beginning-this-school-year" target="_blank">Texas schools required to offer Bible course beginning this school year</a></b><br><br>
All These kinds of things appeal to the most prejudiced in our society and it has gotten worse here, IMHO.<br><br>
How would you ever fight that? I truly think it wold be easier to make a third party relevant before you will wrestle the party back from the religious right.

 

[ericd256]

Dang we never said a pledge to the Texas flag back when i was going to school in Texas. That must be something new.<br>
I have no problem with the bible course being taught, out here in california they are qouting scripture from the Koran in the history book but are ignoring th ebible as a reference.<br>
They really hated my sons project when i showed him how mohammed was a child molester. The school was unhappy with the oral reporthe gave too.

 

[Chelle]

<br>
LOVE it!!!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Very Happy">

 

[fatmantrying]

Eat 'em, kill 'em, bang 'em against rocks, molest 'em, hey they're just kids!!!<br><br>
Hard to grasp how any of you guys truly think you have the high ground over the other.<br><br>
I'd honestly have no problem if it was about some kind of understanding of the major Religions of the world. Once we start down that old "there is only one true religion and it's mine!" crap is when everything literally all goes to Hell. .