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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<p>Headed out for a 24 miler on the IL Marathon course in about an hour.  Longest run of the training plan...kinda nervous after missing my 22 miler 2 weeks ago when I was sick...will report back with results later today.  Wish me luck!</p>
 

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<p>Took a spin around NOLA while trying to remember where the hotel was in order not to get lost.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Nice guy working told me...</p>
<p>"that way, 2 miles, you run into the river....don't go that far."</p>
<p>"that way, lots of miles, you run into the lake.....you don't have that kind of time."</p>
<p> </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So, I followed trolley tracks for a bit, turned around, did some turns down some side streets when traffic prevented easy crossing, and ended up with just over 3.5 miles. </p>
<p>It was warm, not quite hot....but sticky. Quite a bit stickier than my house is lately....definitely a foreshadowing of the summer to come.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My first two miles were both under 11, even with my run/walk intervals.</p>
<p>Overall, somewhere like 11:11 pace.  Nice.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My short run paces are coming down.</p>
<p>My long run paces are still painful.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So, when does the speed from the short start to show up in snappier long runs?</p>
<p>The patience well is starting to get a touch low.</p>
 

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<p>Mike - hope you are having a good 24miler as I sit here and type. </p>
<p>Stitch - Keep up the good work on shorter/faster runs.  I don't have any good answer to your question, but it takes time, could be a long time (several months of consistent running).  Not sure what your race plan (target running distance), but may be time to incorporate more frequent 5-6milers, upping from 3-4milers? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>9miles early in the morning.  I know I have felt the same way during the tapers in the past, so I am not worried too much, but geez, I can't get rid of this heavy-legged feeling.  35miles week done, 8 days to go.</p>
 

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<p>Stitch:  What has worked well for me is to make my long runs progressive/fast finish.  It alllows me to be really warmed up at the beginning and then I push it at the end.  Good training pushing your pace when you (and your legs) are darn tired.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Me:  With all the marathon training, it feels funny to be so proud I got my 11 miler done but I did~ yeah me and a margarita later <span id="user_yui_3_3_0_8_130245497840914"><img alt="biggrin.gif" id="user_yui_3_3_0_8_130245497840913" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;"></span></p>
 

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<p>Mike - 24....awesome!! Hope it went well!</p>
<p>Julie - 11 miles is fantastic! You SHOULD be proud!! :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm supposed to cross train today or do an easy recovery, but may just take a DOR. We'll see later today...but yesterday's run has left me pretty tired. I did, however, engage in some sport eating - went to breakfast with 4 girlfriends. :D</p>
 

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<p>Great workouts everyone!</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>--------------------------------------------------</p>
<p>34m 45s - 4.15 miles - 08m 22s/Mi<br><br>
2:25 PM <br><br><br>
Equipment: Nike Pegasus 04/11<br><br>
Cool/mid 50s - Cloudy and very strong winds. Crawford/Puckett/Security/Kiva/Fontaine/Grinnell/Crawford/Upton/home. Short medium effort run. Sure would be nice if this wind would quit for a few days. Stretching afterward.</p>
 

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<p>It's taken two aborted training cycles for me to realize that the marathon is just not for me. Actually, my exact words to BD were, "the marathon can just go f- itself." Cut my 20-miler short today at 13.5. Cried a little, decided it was pointless for me to be stubborn about continuing the damn charade, and I'm downgrading my Eugene entry to the half marathon. And you know what, this huge weight just lifted. Given my training so far, I would only survive the full and come out hating it even more than I do now. I know I will have fun running the half and I have the fitness to knock it out of the park and be happy about it. </p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<p>Well, I only got 22 in.  I need some help and am a little concerned about the marathon.  I ran 20, 4 weeks ago at a faster pace than I did my 22 today and was able to negative split it.  Today was the first really warm day this year, temps were mid 60's when I started and high 70's when I finished.  Similar conditions to the actual race last year, which was the first warm day too.  Well, I had similar results to last year.  I hit the end of 18 and started cramping.  The splits for 16 and 17 are misleading because I was going into a 20mph headwind on those, but it was 18 where I really ran into trouble.  I drank 50 oz of gatorade and took 12 e-caps, along with 12 gu chomps and a gel to try to combat my cramping.  A similar strategy has worked in my training all year so far, but again, it got really warm today and evidently, my body didn't handle it well.  Any tips from the veterans out there would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mike</p>
<p> </p>
<div>7:46.00</div>
<div>7:35.53</div>
<div>7:36.71</div>
<div>7:51.08</div>
<div>7:49.85</div>
<div>7:45.30</div>
<div>7:50.10</div>
<div>7:54.95</div>
<div>7:53.64</div>
<div>7:53.43</div>
<div>7:53.32</div>
<div>7:48.01</div>
<div>8:04.90</div>
<div>8:10.80</div>
<div>7:55.19</div>
<div>8:20.11</div>
<div>8:37.08</div>
<div>8:36.34</div>
<div>10:20.34</div>
<div>9:53.21</div>
<div>11:39.14</div>
<div>13:23.60</div>
 

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<p>Groton 10K for me. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Not what I had hoped for in terms of pace or anything else for that matter...however, WAS a fabulous day to be out for a run, scored a great massage and a ton of left over food for the kiddies...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
 

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<p>Great job folks! I've been away for a week, haven't posted at all.  I just finished up a 4.5 hour hammer fest ride, with a good friend who without, I might not have ridden at all... then ran later in the day 2:05, with 30 minutes at 6:53 pace, rest in z1/z2.  Almost 21 hours for the week.  Geez.  Luckily I got a lot of that in, in the wee mornings during vacation so as not to disturb everyone, then my big day today.  200 miles riding for the week too.  All outdoors.   Even the swims were in an outdoor pool.  I got a great tan ! :)</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hobey</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/73397/sunday-april-10th-workouts#post_1993546"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>It's taken two aborted training cycles for me to realize that the marathon is just not for me. Actually, my exact words to BD were, "the marathon can just go f- itself." Cut my 20-miler short today at 13.5. Cried a little, decided it was pointless for me to be stubborn about continuing the damn charade, and I'm downgrading my Eugene entry to the half marathon. And you know what, this huge weight just lifted. Given my training so far, I would only survive the full and come out hating it even more than I do now. I know I will have fun running the half and I have the fitness to knock it out of the park and be happy about it. </p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br><p>I've been in a similar circumstance.   Only to DNS at an Ironman when I already traveled there.  I should have dropped that one and saved lots of money.  You did the right thing before it went to far. But like that, with time off, I came to love it again, though that may not be your path, but at least you'll be able to figure that out now with time</p>
 

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<p>Lots to chat about here.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>x: I don't know, man. First off, I am a huge proponent of not putting a lot of stock into one training run because, after all, it is only a training run. But yours is slightly different a case because it's that you have a pointed problem (cramping) rather than some arbitrary "how come I can't maintain pace?" which is almost always an issue of not being trained properly. I also am not one to count ounces of fluid consumed and things like that. You know me. I'm not much the number junkie. But I do have a few questions: how many hours after finishing up the run did you wee? And when was the second time you went? First should have been within an hour. Second not long after that. And by the second your wee should have been pretty darn clear. If not, you were likely dehydrated, and maybe for you it is a chronic issue. I would say a solid majority of people I know do not drink nearly enough in training or racing. Another idea for you is that if it is the same body part cramping, perhaps you have a lot of built up scar tissue in there or something like that.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>hobey: You know, by the sounds of it, being that you said once you made this realization it was like a weight lifted off your back. That right there tells me that you knew for a while that this might not be right. But you know what, I think you're right, only because it was something that came to you, and I know you've thought this or something like it before. But the part I'd like to stress is that it doesn't have to be forever. That's the beauty of this sport we do. Revisit it another time, if the time ever strikes again, and in the meantime, figure out what is fun and challenging and makes you smile and feel good about yourself, and go tackle that. TransRockies? :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Interesting day for me...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Was nearly all but certain that I would have to pass on Boston this year due to the calf injury, and I even mentally prepared myself to let it go, but was holding out until last minute to make official call because, well, I can being that I live nearby to the race. All week my runs were short and slow and uneasy with the calf pinching and giving no connection between road and body for propulsion because, well, I just couldn't land the right way. Then yesterday I had a run were I was painfully slow as usual -- though I haven't been pushing anything (really, I can't) -- but what I noticed was that I was actually able to transfer energy from the road, through the calf, and into the body to push, or spring, me forward. I didn't push it. But I noticed the new found connection back again. So then today, today was the Doyle's Road Race, a race I do almost every year with my sister in law (they live less than a mile from Doyle's pub) and wife. They wanted to run, and since I knew I could slug through 5 miles, I too did it. I started way, way in the back, went easy for the first mile (7:12) and was already surprised that the calf felt pretty good. Seond mile was faster, third faster, and I steadily picked up to race pace for a last mile at 5:41. Finished horrible for a 5 miler for me (31:30 watch time / 31:5x clock - no chip) but the point was that I ran, and I ran honestly after the first mile. And the calf responded, yeilding spring from the road to the body, something I couldn't do even two days earlier. So now I'm feeling hopeful, a glimmer of hope, that Boston might be a go!</p>
 

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<p>Back from a 5 hours @ 80 mile hilly windy ride. Picked up 2 buds at 7:30, led them to go find 2 more buds at 9:00, dropped 1 bud at 9:45, next 10:30, then last 2 at 11:00 and finished last 90min solo. Then 20min run.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>DAYUM it was hot and legs were tired. What a log damn weekend of training.  5mile run Fri AM, state 1mile Fri PM, almost 3hr run Sat AM, 90min swim Sat PM, 5hr ride w/ 20min run Sun PM. Phew!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was HOT</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I CLEARLY did not drink enough. The run was mostly slog fest, the legs felt fine but I was just drained. I only had 5 bottles, 4 of which for first 4:30 and it just wasnt enough. I was a little dizzy when I stopped. It didn't help the wind was to my back on the way back in from the run. So I just chilled out and laid in the grass a while enjoying the nice breeze. Soon as I cooled down, felt fine. So combination of too hot and too little water. Well, that's what I get for my first day out >80degrees!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
 

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<p>Out for a short, easy run today and it went better than I feared it might so I am in good spirits.  Plus, the weather was awesome.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Thor</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/73397/sunday-april-10th-workouts#post_1993554"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>TransRockies? :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means!</p>
<p> </p>
 

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<p>Ya'll remember Chris the Wheeler? He still pops in from time to time. Anyway, bumped into him at Doyle's Road Race this morning. We chatted quite a bit. He won the chairs! He's doing good. Thought ya'll would like the update.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
<p>Interesting points Thor.  I did wee within the first half hour and again about an hour later. I also forgot to mention one point.  I was in a rush typing and left this out, and it's key.  I know one problem I have is that my body just does not seem to want to absorb liquids while I am going like that.  I know that during the marathon last year, I got dehydrated because of missing 2 water stops due to bad congestion early in the race.  However, since that race...all last year in fact, I've been monitoring my liquid intake closely.  I started taking electrolytes since that seemed to really help my body absorb the liquid in my IM 2 years ago when Infinit failed me, and allowed me to start running again over the last few miles.  Today, I wasn't taking in an extreme amount of liquid, based on past experience.  At the race last year, 5 hours later and lots of gatorade, water, food, etc. I was still 6 lbs lighter than when I started the race.  Today, I started getting sloshy about 5 miles in and backed off on the gatorade slightly. That seemed to work in getting rid of the sloshy feeling, but then I felt I was getting dehydrated.  So, I increased the gatorade slightly and took some electrolytes.  I got sloshy again.  It's frustrating to know that my body needs the liquid, but won't absorb it properly.  And actually, the only reason I know how much I took in was I know how many empty or half full gatorade bottles were in my parents van when I got done.  Fortunately, dad ran SAG for me today, so I was able to stop at 22 when there was no point in walking the rest of the way to 24 just to do it.  If he hadn't been there, I'd have had no choice but to walk back to my car.  Anyway, I could be completely off, but based on how much weight I lose, even in my shorter workouts, I need lots of liquid.  It's nothing for me to lose 4lbs over the course of an hour run even if I take in a whole 20oz bottle of gatorade.  I'd love to go to a sports lab and have them help me figure this all out, but unfortunately, due to cost, that's really not an option...so, I turn to you guys.</p>
 

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<p>Mike (xflbk) - 4lbs is a LOT to lose over an hour run.  Sounds like you know what contributed to the today's issue.  I totally agree with the Thor's first comment, though.  I wouldn't put too much emphasis on one long run.  What I have been reading, your other runs (intervals & tempo) are going really well, plus you had some solid long runs as well, so I would say, let it go.  Don't over analyze, other than figuring out hydration issue.  Good luck.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>hobey - Training for a full didn't work this time, but you may get some fire back to tackle the distance again in the future.  Meantime, improving the half time is absolutely challenging and rewarding.  Looking forward to your smashing the half in May!  <span><img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;"></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thor - <span><img alt="icon_thumleft.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_thumleft.gif" style="width:22px;height:20px;"></span></p>
 

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<p>Hobey - Sorry to laugh at your pain and frustration but ROFLMAO on your comment about the marathon can do to itself... If it's such a releif to go to the half, then I think that really screams volumes about where you're at on the marathon training. Perhaps you've been pushing yourself too hard too fast in your training plan. Remember, you are not built like BrewDad (remember, you're much cuter and have some parts he doesn't! <span id="user_yui_3_3_0_8_130252136745725"><img alt="icon_scratch.gif" id="user_yui_3_3_0_8_130252136745724" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_scratch.gif" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></span>) and that can make a massive difference in how you approach your training vs his. Not saying you are taking a play from his book, because I don't really know, but I'm just guessin' maybe? So, F-It and do something you wanna do</p>
<p> </p>
<p>X - ok, so it sounds like you are possibly INJESTING enough but not ABSORBING enough. You need to change you mix of stuff methinks. Like different products and combinations. Have you tried ELETE WATER? I have a bottle I'm not using, PM me and I'll ship it down, maybe you can try that. I found it helpful if the electrolyte tabs worked then it might. It's liquid and can combine with whatever else you're drinking. Also I wonder if you are not coming INTO the event loaded properly w/ fluids AND Electroltyes. Maybe you need to pre-drink some for a day and get the ratios right. Once you start running you're going to quickly impair your stomach as the blood flow shunts away from it. So you have to be READY to EASILY absorb</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What effort are you running? Z2? z3? z4? That matters too. Maybe you need to back off the effort a tad. Maybe as much as 1 bpm. I found at Vegas 2 weeks ago, if I was at 160 the wheels flew off. At 159, I could go forever. Weirdest damn thing. Either way, BOTH we were below what I've done my higher ended training at. CC actually told me "keep it under 175 at all times). Well heck, I never touched 175 or close - and we both expected me to, especially by the end.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>so consider</p>
<p>a) WHAT you are putting in</p>
<p>b) WHEN you are putting it in</p>
<p>c) WHAT The environment was like (It was hot as crap up here yesterday, I got dehydrated on my ride)</p>
<p>d) WHAT your exertion is</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All these play into it</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Heck I'm only 1/2 way into my coffee - there may be other variables I'm not thinking of</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You'll figure it out man, I know you will. You're a DAMN good athlete we just have to do some tweaking here so you can maximize your performance.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
 
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