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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Background: In my running career, I have not ventured into the world of doubling up. I have been at the same 40-60 mpw on 6-7 runs, week-in and week-out, for the last couple years. I wonder how do I increase my volume without doing doubles.<br><br>
This is an informal poll for those who do single runs per day:<br><br>
- What is the max milage you have attained without running doubles?<br><br>
- How many runs per week: Six? Seven?<br><br>
And yes, I am familiar with the Lydiard ascent where he has his runners build up to 100 mile weeks on single runs. I am interested in your antecdotal experience, rather than a book example.<br><br>
Thanks.
 

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roots, i ran 81, 83, and 87 for three weeks in december on singles. it means that my recovery days were 8-14 milers. i still kept doing speed work, but added extra long warmups... i felt like i needed it anyway. plus the standard 20+ miler for my long runs.<br><br>
on one run i remember feeling like i had finally warmed-up, and realized it had taken me 8 miles to feel that way. ran seven days a week, except when i was sick.<br><br>
for me easy days were very easy. mp+2min per mile or slower.<br><br>
i'll see if it pays off on sunday.<br><br>
i haven't updated this in a while, but here's what my past 8 months looked like (i'll try to update tomorrow):<br><br><a href="http://www.noao.edu/staff/mpenn/personal/rocknroll08.htm" target="_blank">http://www.noao.edu/staff/mpenn/pers...ocknroll08.htm</a><br><br><br>
(ps - i get beat every weekend by a guy doing doubles. he was near 110 at his peak i think. you can get very strong doing doubles too)
 

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i'm doing 7 days of singles and have got to the low 70s. i don't plan on going beyond 75 for this training cycle. if this ends up working well for me (will fid out in my may marathon) i may look at upping things again to 80-90 next round, which will almost certainly bring some doubles into my schedule.
 

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roots, the general rule of thumb tends to be about 10 miles a day or 60-70 a week in singles. Once you hit this people seem to advise singles, because many people's bodies tend to break down. If this is time consuming or too much mileage, another approach is doing you 40-60 and then adding in to make 70-80 off of doubles. When your body becomes accoustomed to the mileage, begin to cut off the doubles. Either do a day without a double, or a little less mileage. Me personally, when I'm doing 100 a week, I like to do around 80-85 a week in singles and I then do 3-4 days of 3-4 miles. Lydiard bases a lot of his stuff off mileage, not time, which I buy into. He liked his guys to do about 9-10 hrs of running I believe and then add into extra runs as much as they could. For me the 10 hrs gives me about 80-85.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<img alt="shock.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/shock.gif"><br><br>
Thanks! Those are impressive numbers. Your recovery days are the distance of my mid-week, mid-long or quality, workout day.<br><br>
I hear you on feeling warmed up. At the end of a recovery run is when I'm feeling ready to go.<br><br>
What race? I wonder, is this volume more or less than previous seasons? Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Now I have a question about doubles. <img alt="confused.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/confused.gif"><br><br>
Just kidding. Those are impressive mileages. Yes, I remember when I got to 60mpw for the first time. Then when I had multiple 60 mile weeks in one season. Then back-to-back 60s. It's all become a progression. My body has done pretty well on about 50 mpw for an entire season. Last season I averaged 49 mpw for the 15 weeks prior to race.<br><br>
Can I make the assumption that I can improve on increased mileage alone?
 

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I've done 70 - 80 miles in singles, but back when I was much younger and recovered faster. A typical week was M: 8-9, T: 12-13, W: 8-9, Th: 12-13, F: off, S: 10, Su" 20+. Doubles were not an option for me at the time.<br><br>
Victor
 

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Roots, I have a huge belief in mileage and strength work. The more mileage, the stronger you become and your aerobic day pace improves. In anything 5k and above, this is huge. I came within 5 seconds of my 5k p.r during a hundred mile week in the summer. At the very least, the mileage gives you confidence. The mileage will also provide you with the strength to recover quicker during intervals and on rest days, thus clearly making the rest of the training easy. I'm a firm believer in the ability to achieve almost p.rs off of just mileage and a tempo or fartlek a week.
 

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Not exactly singles, but a couple of weeks ago I ran 101 miles in 9 runs over 6 days. This week I'll run just under 100 in 8 runs over 6 days. (I'm very attached to my day off - makes me feel like a rebel and gives me one night a week that I can misbehave a little more than usual.)
 

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I enjoy "day offs" as well hrmay. I forgot to add that in roots. I think when you're doing higher mileage, an easy day is needed at least once every two weeks, although I do it once a week. Instead of doing 15-16 a day, whether in single or doubles, i do an hour REAL easy. My normal training pace is 7-7:15, i go out and run 8:30ish pace for an hr and just rest, i find it's really enjoyable especially since I'm not a big believer in the neccesity for a day off.
 

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<span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">The most I’ve averaged on singles, or doubles for that matter, has been 65 mpw with an occasional week in low 70’s. However, it’s been only for 4-8 weeks at a time. Best full year average has been low 50’s. On those occasions I’ve leaned more on big (for me) days rather than a higher day-to-day total. I would run a long one every 3rd or 4th day with only 5-8 between them.</span></span><br><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">An approach I really like and will be using this year is the “2 big workouts” schedule that I was introduced to by “Tinman”. It is geared mostly to the marathon but can work well for any distance. The way it works is that all your quality for the week is incorporated into 2 long runs. On the other 5 days you run easy or recovery pace. I used a scaled down version of it this past year to key for a half marathon in the fall. I ended up having one of my 2 best years ever (if you believe in age grading). Example:</span></span><br><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">Mon – 8 miles easy</span></span><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">Tue – 8 miles easy</span></span><br><span style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><b>Wed – 14 miles</b>, including 6 x 1600 at HM pace with 200 recovery jogs. The extra miles come from longish warm up and cool down; usually 4-5 to warm up, starting slowly and working into normal easy pace. No stopping before starting 1600’s—keep running through the whole thing. Cool down often includes a few strides or 200’s. I like to do it on a track, where you set can liquids down on one of turns and pick them up on the run.</span></span><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">Thu – 6 miles easy/recovery</span></span><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">Fri – 8 miles easy with 8 x 100 strides</span></span><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">Sat – 8 miles easy</span></span><br><span style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><b>Sun – 18 miles</b> (progression, fast finish, or including longish blocks at M pace)</span></span><br><b><span style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">TOTAL – 70 miles</span></span></b><br><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">A couple things I like about this approach is that it is simple—there is nothing more to it than doing 2 big, quality workouts and running easy on all the other days. It’s easier than separating speed/quality from the long run and allows more scheduling flexibility. Another is that it works well, especially for longer races. The scaled down version I used incorporated some doubles on easy days, but not on big days. My “big” workouts were one in 10-13 range and a 2nd of 14-15. Weekly average was 60 for about 5 ½ months.</span></span><br><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">McSolar – I think you know Ray “rbmoose”, right? He used a 2 big workout schedule to run that 2:41:58 in Philly at age 47. Nice goin, btw, on big miles you’ve been putting in.</span></span>
 

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- ~52 miles<br><br>
- 5 days per week<br><br>
I'm a 5 days a week person. Other things in life prevent me from doing 6 consistently. I've been holding steady at about 35 for the last couple of months. I can't see myself ever going over 60 on 5 days.
 

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When I am in mid-summer training and all is going well - This was a typical "1st run" of day schedule<br><br>
M 8-10<br>
T 16-18 with 6x5 minutes at Vo2 max with 5 minute recoveries<br>
W 20-24<br>
TH 8-10<br>
F 12-14<br>
Sa 12-16 with a LAT workout<br>
SU 20-24 easy<br><br>
THis yielded 96-115 per week<br><br>
Then I would throw in 4-6 doubles for 110-140 a week.<br><br>
Once VRAA is over I will go back to a 2 week rotation of hard/easy days<br><br>
M 6-8<br>
T 12-16 (Speed)<br>
W 6-8<br>
TH 12-16<br>
F 6-8<br>
SA 18-24 (Speed)<br>
SU 6-10<br>
M 12-16 (Speed)<br>
T 6-8<br>
W 15-20<br>
TH 6-8<br>
F 12-16 (Speed)<br>
SA 6-10<br>
SU 18-24<br>
Which will LIkely yield 80 one week and 90 the next - Throw in doubles and it will be 100-120 per week<br><br>
I really like the 2 week rotation
 
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