Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

alan fletcher · Dec 29, 2007

OK - this will be a repeat to any of you who moved here from the CR mainstream racing forum, but since that seems to be in its final death throes as Active i figured i'd move this thread here........ 
Background: male, 42, 150lbs (weight seems to be falling off as I up my mileage...), relatively new to running (started April 2006). achilles injury this summer from charging the big hils too much (3 months off, 2 months rebuilding). back running properly since October. 
I have finally gotten my half marathon time to just under 1:30 which was one of my 2007 goals (best in 2006 was 1:51!!) 
Next big stretch goal is to run a sub 3 marathon. (I ran a trainwreck marathon last year after 6 months of low/slow miles and crashed at 20 miles dragging my a$$ home in 4:10) 
I have 5 more months to train for my marathon (Edinburgh on May 25th). 
Currently training about 60MPW, I think I can get up to 75ish without things falling to pieces. Training plan is 4 weeks on, 1 week cutback. On weeks are 7 days for 65-75miles, cutback is 6 days and 45ish. I need to watch the short distance speedwork and big hills as I don't want to reinjure my achilles. Lots of longs runs (17-22 every week, with a lot of marathon pace miles/fast finishes in there). 
I am hoping to somehow pull off a 1:25 half in April and I have a couple 10k's and another half between now and then as fitness checks. I am hoping to eat a little time off during each of those. If I get to 1:25 then I can make a raceday decision on the marathon - either go for a relatively conservative 3:20 (boston for me) of go all out in search of the sub 3 (and risk an ugly crash and missing the BQ). Knowing me, unless conditions are bad, I will go for it and regret it big time 20 miles later. 
I seem to respond better to aggressive goals, but do you think sub 3 in May is too much of a stretch goal? 
- thanks, Alan

arc918 · Dec 29, 2007

my $.02: 
if you can get your half down to a ~ 1:25 and you're feeling great, then take a stab at sub 3:00 
I guess the other issue is your training runs - are your MP, tempo & V02max runs based on a 3:20 or a 3:00?

hrmay · Dec 30, 2007

Alan, 
I definitely encourage you to set your sights on a sub-3 hour marathon in May. You have a lot of time to get there, and it seems to me that you are in pretty good shape in terms of your training. Some of it will depend on your relative strengths in terms of endurance, but if you can get your half under 1:25, I really think it is do-able. I get better the longer the distance, but I ran a 2:56 after running just under 1:25. I believe my training maxed out around 80 mpw at that time. 
I would definitely encourage you to keep doing long runs with some good MP chunks in them, as well as some just easy long runs. I think you are right to ease off the hills and be cautious with speedwork. Honestly, for a marathon, long runs, mileage, and tempos are most important. 
Best of luck to you.

alan fletcher · Dec 30, 2007

thanks for the input. 
training paces are from Daniel's VDOT tables based on my most recent race (right now that is a 1:29:56 half, so my current M pace is 7:09, which is 3:07). i'll make them faster as my fitness check races (hopefully) get faster over the next 5 months. if i can get to 1:25 for the half i'll have an M pace of 6:46 (2:5<img alt="cool.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/cool.gif"> which will give me a few minutes slack on 3 hours. 
the only exception to that is my pace runs (which are kinda my poor excuse for speedwork), which are run at the goal pace for the next race (which is either a 10k or a half) - basically i am trying to get used to running at a slightly faster pace. 
as i approach a 10k, which is usually a stretch goal, i do these once a week and progress thru 2x1 mile, 1x2m, 2x2m and then a 5k TT. i figure if i can hit that 5k on pace and still be able to kick hard for the last 1/2 lap in a solo time trial at the high school track then race day adrenalin/competition will get me thru the 10k on the big day (fingers crossed). 
i am thinking that i should probably add in some 100m strides after some of the easy runs too, as the only fast legwork i am doing is those pace runs.

runninirish · Jan 6, 2008

I'm also shooting to break 3:00 in May...I'm following Pfitzer. My previous marathons have been Lydiard based...but I'm making the switch to see how it pans out...those long tempo runs and the 2nd semi-long run mid week seem to be the key...good luck!

alan fletcher · Jan 6, 2008

runninirish - you are already faster at 5k and half marathon than i expect to be in 5 months (and that is assuming everything goes well!), so if I have any sort of shot then it should be a no-brainer for you <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">

VictorN · Jan 7, 2008

I think this is within spitting distance for you. You also seem to have a good plan to get there. As you wrote, watch the speed work and hills (unless your marathon is a hilly one) and focus on long runs and MP runs. I also found it helpful for me if my aerobic runs were at a high aerobic effort. That can be addictive, however. Make sure you build in plenty of recovery days. 
Victor

alan fletcher · Jan 7, 2008

I think it's going to be tough for me to get to 1:25 for that half <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif"> 
here's a link to a chart that shows the time improvement I've made, and what I still need, to get to 1:25 in april. I converted 10Ks to the equivalent half time using Daniels VDOT tables. I missed my goal on 1/1 by about 35 seconds (for the 10k), so that line isn't going down quite as quickly as I wanted..... <a href="http://bp1.blogger.com/_lDwUvNoT_Yc/R1ib4l8BRDI/AAAAAAAAAF0/zmW-js_KH3c/s1600-h/85+plan+2.jpg" target="_blank">http://bp1.blogger.com/_lDwUvNoT_Yc/.../85+plan+2.jpg</a> 
Hopefully my next race, on 2/3 is back on track at 1:27:30 
- Alan

runninirish · Jan 8, 2008

thanks...I thought I was ready to break 3 in Boston last year, but had a BAD race...I was tired from the begining, so I think I blew my taper a little...I am looking forward to racing in my hometown in my...no travel, homecooked meal the night before, my OWN bed...that's gotta' be worth a few minutes!

Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

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