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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let's talk to each other about the round here. If you have questions, concerns, something to offer for the good of the order, this is the thread you want.<br><br>
I'll start. This round will have some changes from prior rounds but I think you will find these are minimal. Here's a list so far.
<ul><li>Conceptual change: 1 VRAA point = 1/4 mile travelled</li>
<li>Method of entering scores: The plan is to use detailed scoring in the scoring database. In other words, you will break your workouts down by type. This should help to eliminate scoring errors. My favorite error to make personally was to give myself alt. workout points (1 pt/5 mins) for cardio workouts (1pt/3 mins). Big difference!</li>
<li>I changed the Badassery illustrative text. I wanted to emphasize that workouts other than running can really boost your scores and make you perform at a much higher level of badassery than you might think.</li>
</ul>
More later. Surprises are in store.<br><br>
Cheers,<br>
Billy
 

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Thanks for taking over Billy! I am really looking forward to this round. It will be my last until I redeploy from Iraq in late summer.<br><br>
Ooh: You might want to make your signup thread a sticky!
 

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Thank you for organizing this Billy. I am so excited to participate for the first time. I have missed the sign up deadline the past three times by one day...no kidding.
 

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I started typing this in the sign-up thread in response to Holly4874 not being sure what level to commit to as she falls sort of right in between two categories. And it looked like a few others were also seeing themselves right at the upper end of one category and the lower end of the next category and not really sure where they should be committing themselves too. I didn't want to mucky-up the sign up thread, so I'll stick it here instead.<br><br>
This was actually in response to Holly, but maybe it'll help out others too:<br><br>
Holly, (and others that say they are sort of right inbetween two levels), I would recommend that if you right on the upper edge of a level and sort of eeking into the next level, that you go for it and commit to the upper level. You (holly) do quite a bit of cross training and ab work, so don't look at just your running mileage as the determining factor of what level you should at. Factor in various miscellaneous points for all the weights and core work you do also. If this is your first time playing VRAA, I think you will find that you really can add some signficant points by the other things you do. I mean, you even get points for stretching and walking, which many of us do as a warm up or cool down. All those little points add up. I'll be at the lower end of Super BA, but I know with the extra stuff I do and the extra stuff that I'll <span style="text-decoration:underline;">want</span> to do so I can add more to my team, it'll put me in the mid Super BA range.<br><br>
that's my .02 . If any of the other VRAA veteran's disagree as far as going into an upper level when one is on the border, please correct me. <img alt="hippy2.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/hippy2.gif">
 

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My only concern right now is that the first team to reach the end point is the winner. Looking at how many points it will take to reach NYC, the top 4 teams all surpassed that amount last round, and a 5th team was only a few points off. People complained last time that the Surf City bonus points gave an unfair advantage to the teams who came out real strong and penalized the slow and steady teams. By the same notion, a team could come out in the end with more points than the team that happens to be first to reach NYC, and still not be the winner. It'd be Bush/Gore 2000 all over again.<br><br>
If teams are smaller that might not be an issue, if teams are larger, people might arrive much earlier than expected as they did in Surf City last round.<br><br>
ETA: I'm mostly concerned that if the first team arrives in NYC in 2 weeks (unlikely, but this is hypothetical) the round of VRAA might as well be over, what is the point of getting more points if the winner has already been decided?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think you could choose either way and have your integrity intact. Keep in mind that most folks end up underestimating what they are capable of doing. If you do decide to go for it (choosing the higher level), make sure you talk to your teammates and let them know so they can support you.<br><br>
I didn't want to introduce too much change in this round. Adjusting levels of badassery is something I will probably do in Round 8. I'd like them to be numbers that are unlikely to part of normal training plans. A plan might try to get you to 15 miles a week. It probably wouldn't try to get you to 17 or 19. That would, I hope, make it a little clearer where you fall in the categorization.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Some good points here.<br><br>
My intent is to end the Round within a few days of the first team reaching NYC. There is no bonus for reaching New York first. If you reach NYC first, you win. Silver and Bronze places are determined in the same way. I will end the round early if need be. As the top teams did not reach 12K points until nearly the end of the last round, I don't think ending early will be needed.<br><br>
This does depend on the size of teams. If teams are significantly larger than last round, I'll adjust the route. That's a good observation and thank you for that.
 

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And as I edit my post, you addressed what I was adding. I guess I just don't like the idea of ending the round early, and not just because I have a race planned for the last day of the competition. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
It sounds like you have a great handle on things here though. Looking forward to this round.
 

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Hi Billy,<br><br>
Thanks for organizing! I'm looking forward to my first VRAA. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> I have a couple of questions/suggestions regarding alternate workouts- specifically winter activities:<br><br>
1) Cross country/back country skiing- I'm thinking these activities should be logged at the same 4pts/mi as running; not always as strenuous as running, but sometimes much more so (particularly when carrying a pack).<br><br>
2) Snowshoeing- Perhaps 5pts/mi?<br><br>
3) Telemark skiing (lift service)- Actual skiing time definitely falls under "General Cardio". On an average day I spend about 3 hours skiing (2 hours resting / riding lifts)- 60 pts which is equivalent to 15 miles running. Does that sound right? I'm not talking alpine skiing here; telemarking- think 3 hours of lunges- it's a hell of a quad workout, but boy is it fun!<br><br>
What are your thoughts? How should I log? My first three days of VRAA7 will be backcountry ski days- wooo hooo!
 

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Thanks for pulling this together Billy! Round 6 was my first and I signed up based on my average of 30 miles per week. I didn't realize how much my cross training that I was just starting to include regularly would add to my points. So That moved me up to the super for this time around.<br>
I think you did a good job of defining points. I think one of the things that we must remember is that all of our points are on the honor system. So if we do a "cardio workout", whether it is in the gym on a machine or snowshoeing up a mountain, the points need to be honest. It has been a while since I have had to snowshoe, but I remember that there are times when the snow was deep enough (I had to do this at work as a forester) where I might be moving steadily for an hour but not move more than a mile. There were other times where the snow had a good crust and I could cover the ground as fast as I could in the summer. The point you made was that if the "miles" are hard to measure, use the 3 minutes per point as a conversion factor for the cardio effort.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Enjoy your trip. It sounds really fun!<br><br>
To answer your question, I go back to the general ideas that underlie how the VRAA is constructed. We want a game where everyone can play. Yet, this is a running board and we want running to have pride of place. Running will always be the most efficient way to score points but other exercises, in terms of fairness and for reasons of verisimilitude, should still garner pretty good scores. We also want to keep the game simple.<br><br>
1. Cross country skiing is undeniably a good workout, but running must have pride of place. To keep it simple, let's score this as a cardio workout.<br><br>
2. Snowshoeing seems at least roughly analogous to walking. It may well be a harder workout than running or walking. I'm willing to score it the same as running/walking - 4 pts/mi. You could also score it as a cardio workout if you wish.<br><br>
3. Telemark skiing as you describe it sounds like a cardio workout to me. I would think it should be scored that way.<br><br>
Hope that helps,<br>
Billy
 

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Thanks, Billy. Looking forward to skiing my way from LA to San Bernardino on the first leg of VRAA7! <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br><img alt="" src="http://users.frii.com/mrobbins/Skiing/mark.jpg" style="border:0px solid;">
 

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Billy,<br><br>
Thanks for organizing the VRAA <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> This will be my first on KR, the ones on CR were a blast.....I'm looking foward to your version!<br><br>
I'm wondering how you score other individual sports if at all...... along with my running, I usually play racquetball once a week for a hour.
 

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Jim, over at Information Central, there are the guidelines for other activities that will gain points. General Cardio and/or Alternate workouts is where racquetball would likely fall and there are some general rules, although it's open to some interpretation, as to what would fall into the general cardio category and the alternate workout category.
 

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Any chance that we could limit points to only running? <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif">
 

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he has a point though, it seems pretty ridiculous to want points for ... playing volleyball in gym class. I could understand it (maybe) if it was hard core volleyball supposed to improve overall fitness<br><br>
ps this wasn't directed at the posters above (coyote and raquetball guy) ... cross training definitely has a valuable and perhaps irreplaceable place in fitness.. but I don't see anyone fly fishing (for example) their way across America<br><br><br><h1><a class="nuwiki_top_link" href="#user_top">[top]</a> D</h1>
<br>
D
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks Jim!<br><br>
It was decided last round that team sports were Alt. Workouts. I'd call racquetball (an individual sport, to be sure) an Alt Workout, too.
 

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In order to keep my body from falling apart when running decent mileage, I *need* to crosstrain. That includes playing in a division 2 coed volleyball league. Believe me, this is not gym class poking around.
 

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I liked the INDIVIDUAL leader board...just sayin'<br><br>
I missed that this round!
 
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