<b>OK, I really screwed that up and don't know how to undo it.<br>
BUT..........I do have all the posts so I will just paste them here.<br>
I apologize profusely, and blame Millbot for telling me to try it cause he had to run</b> <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
I'm going to take this as permission to record some thoughts. Thank you, OM. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
When I have increased mileage, I have felt more fatigued for two or three weeks, and then I can feel that my body is adapting. After about six weeks, the new mileage feels no harder than the old. I believe this matches what Daniels says (allow six weeks for your body to adapt).<br><br>
How to increase mileage without injuring yourself is a fascinating question (at least to me). Personally I wouldn't feel bad about breaking the 10% rule occasionally. Here are some other recommendations:
<ul><li>Increase mileage by no more than one mile for each run per week. For example, if you run 5x per week, increase by up to 5 miles per week. This alternative to the 10% rule is from Daniels.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Increase in stages. In other words, increase your mileage, then stay at that level for a few weeks before increasing again (Pfitzinger recommends 2-3 weeks). You won't really know how your body is handling the increased load until you stick with it for a while.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Don't do speed work and increase your mileage at the same time.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Take regular cutback weeks. Every four weeks or so, cut your mileage by 20-30%, and then return to your previous mileage the following week.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Watch for signs of overtraining. If you feel unusually sore or tired, or you begin to lose interest in running, you are probably not recovering, and you need to adjust something.</li>
</ul>
There's a lot of experience on the board. What else would you say in response to OM's question?<br><br>
Millbot makes some very good points and I don't have any suggestions to add. I wish I had always followed those points! In fact I injured myself about 6-7 weeks ago, possibly during a long hard run. I just did a very similar run last night (not quite as hard) and I'm fine, so I guess for me with rest, XT and carefully ramping up during that time period the body has adapted.<br><br>
I had a good 3-miler at lunchtime on the Bricktown Canal. 34 degrees and overcast-ideal running conditions, wouldn't you say? I was in a short-sleeve shirt and shorts so I got a few looks. I did have gloves on.<img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> I set the Garmin on Auto-Lap per mile and did 9:55, 9:54 and 10:06, a little fast. In fact it told me several times to slow down (and then to speed up). Back in the Y, I spent a long time stretching and it felt great.<br><br>
Tomorrow I'm taking the day off and will probably go out to eat with DW (and run of course).<br><br>
This is interesting. I might give it a go. I've been a little too timid since my encounter with bursitis in my hip last summer. I don't believe it would be too much, since I think the bursitis was caused by wearing a different type of shoe.<br><br>
OM - anytime I've felt that way, I took a cutback week. Try it and see how it goes.<br><br>
Speaking of runs - 3 miles on the 'mill in 32:55. A total bleh run.<br><br>
I'm using the "ramp 'n hold" method of increasing mileage.<br><br>
Oct: 25 mpw with one cutback week of 15<br>
Nov: 30 mpw with cutback week of 20<br>
Dec: 35 mpw with 2 cutback weeks of 25<br><br>
I'm still doing speedwork once/week, but just 2 miles worth (plus WU & CD) and that's it. So the speedwork is not taxing.<br><br>
The first week of 35 mpw produced a relapse in my PF. I have to be more careful on the trails. I will extend the 35 mpw for another 2 to 4 weeks (following the 6 week rule), I think, before I move to 40 mpw.<br><br>
Is everyone sleepy & bored now? Let me tell you about my diet!!!<br><br>
Wow, lots of good advice for my somewhat whiny question today! So six weeks is the magic number, eh? Good to know. Considering I'm in my fourth week of 22+ miles, I can relax and understand it's just part of the process. Very good!<br><br>
And no worries, ksrunr, I'm fully aware of that magic 10% number. A couple years back, one of the previous times I had restarted running, I was increasingly diligent with that amount, rebuilding my 3x/week 3 mile runs to 6 miles each, and it really felt great. Only thing is, I also worked on increasing my speed at the same time, which I now have learned is a no-no. Having patience is a toughie for me, it seems. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
So millbot, taking a slacker week is OK? REALLY? Wow, who knew....<br><br>
At the risk of TMI, my cycle's gotten all messed up this past month as well, pretty much shut down, so yeah, I guess I really have overdone it playing catchup like this. With my current schedule, I really can't see devoting anymore time to running right now, and it feels too good at the pace I'm going to try to speed up, so I really have no intention of increasing my weekly mileage. Hopefully things will normalize by next month.<br><br>
Thanks again, everyone, for all your wisdom and support. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
I have nothing to add to Millbot's erudite post regarding mileage buildup, (except to say that Econo you should not be doing even that little bit of speed during mileage growth). I will add that I like 3 weeks of work and then a cutback week, as for older runners it seems to make more sense. Millbot says "four weeks or so" I believe, but here is a good rule of thumb that has worked for me when I am in hard training. Get in the habit of taking your pulse in the morning. If you hit a day when it's 8-10 bpm higher, and you will be surprised how often that occurs, then you need a day off or a light day. This approach allows you to make decisions day by day rather than week by week and the logic of this approach is easy to see.<br><br>
As for doubles, you have to already have a good mileage base and program as KS obviously does. He is up around 70+ mpw and his first taper week is in the 50's, just about perfect for him.<br><br>
Jim24315 and others have commented about doubles that they "trick" your body into faster recovery and really help you build strength. Although you can do doubles during mileage buildup time, most competitive runners do them when they already have a decent base. Lydiard didn't like doubles during the mileage buildup for reasons that should be obvious, one of them being the opportunity to stress the body just once, and take advantage of the changes in HR and blood flow.<br><br>
On the other hand, the runner who is already doing a lot of mileage can certainly benefit from working out twice a day. Here is what the Kenyans do in training camp:<br><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">The basic structure therefore of the Kenyan training day in camp is:</span></span><br><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">5.30am get up</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">6.00am compulsory morning run (40-90 minutes)</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">breakfast</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">10.00am hard work (hills or intervals)</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">food and rest, maybe sleep</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">4.00pm – individual training, this is very much up to each athlete, some may just rest, others do 10-20 minutes only, others 60 minutes</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">food</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">7.00 - 9.00pm bed</span></span><br><br>
That individual training cited above may not be any running, but form drills, core work, weights, plyometrics etc. Note that their second running workout follows the early morning workout quite soon. The morning workout is always done by time, never mileage. This is a great idea that we ought to follow more closely. We are too much engaged in mileage. I believe if many women who think of themselves as slow runners would just run to time and not feel competitive about the miles, they would get in shape quite easily and without injury risks.<br><br>
In England and Australia you hear the word "sessions" used more than the word "intervals" here, and I like that word because intervals confuses people. (The "interval" is the rest period you take after a fast work bout.) So a well-trained runner would do a gentle long run in the morning of about ten miles. Consider that at faster than a 7 minute mile pace this is only about an hour jog for them. In the afternoon would be a shorter workout, five miles or so, incorporating some speed, never the same thing day after day, perhaps a hill workout, fartlek work etc. but the opportunity to goose it a bit is always later in the day.<br><br>
With the exception of very good runners who are already in race shape, as KS is, JPGarland over on Active, Jim24315 himself, there are not many runners on this forum who could engage in this type of training, and it takes a very long time to get the basic "entry fee" of general conditioning to do this. At my age, of over 60 it would be a year at least.<br><br>
The routine I pasted above comes from notes my nephew sent me from an international forum which covered many subjects, not the least of which was the Kenyans' routines, elite female marathoners, etc. I am happy to share the entire doc with anyone who wants it. I am at: spareribs823 at gmail dot com. Spareribs
BUT..........I do have all the posts so I will just paste them here.<br>
I apologize profusely, and blame Millbot for telling me to try it cause he had to run</b> <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
I'm going to take this as permission to record some thoughts. Thank you, OM. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
When I have increased mileage, I have felt more fatigued for two or three weeks, and then I can feel that my body is adapting. After about six weeks, the new mileage feels no harder than the old. I believe this matches what Daniels says (allow six weeks for your body to adapt).<br><br>
How to increase mileage without injuring yourself is a fascinating question (at least to me). Personally I wouldn't feel bad about breaking the 10% rule occasionally. Here are some other recommendations:
<ul><li>Increase mileage by no more than one mile for each run per week. For example, if you run 5x per week, increase by up to 5 miles per week. This alternative to the 10% rule is from Daniels.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Increase in stages. In other words, increase your mileage, then stay at that level for a few weeks before increasing again (Pfitzinger recommends 2-3 weeks). You won't really know how your body is handling the increased load until you stick with it for a while.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Don't do speed work and increase your mileage at the same time.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Take regular cutback weeks. Every four weeks or so, cut your mileage by 20-30%, and then return to your previous mileage the following week.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Watch for signs of overtraining. If you feel unusually sore or tired, or you begin to lose interest in running, you are probably not recovering, and you need to adjust something.</li>
</ul>
There's a lot of experience on the board. What else would you say in response to OM's question?<br><br>
Millbot makes some very good points and I don't have any suggestions to add. I wish I had always followed those points! In fact I injured myself about 6-7 weeks ago, possibly during a long hard run. I just did a very similar run last night (not quite as hard) and I'm fine, so I guess for me with rest, XT and carefully ramping up during that time period the body has adapted.<br><br>
I had a good 3-miler at lunchtime on the Bricktown Canal. 34 degrees and overcast-ideal running conditions, wouldn't you say? I was in a short-sleeve shirt and shorts so I got a few looks. I did have gloves on.<img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> I set the Garmin on Auto-Lap per mile and did 9:55, 9:54 and 10:06, a little fast. In fact it told me several times to slow down (and then to speed up). Back in the Y, I spent a long time stretching and it felt great.<br><br>
Tomorrow I'm taking the day off and will probably go out to eat with DW (and run of course).<br><br>
This is interesting. I might give it a go. I've been a little too timid since my encounter with bursitis in my hip last summer. I don't believe it would be too much, since I think the bursitis was caused by wearing a different type of shoe.<br><br>
OM - anytime I've felt that way, I took a cutback week. Try it and see how it goes.<br><br>
Speaking of runs - 3 miles on the 'mill in 32:55. A total bleh run.<br><br>
I'm using the "ramp 'n hold" method of increasing mileage.<br><br>
Oct: 25 mpw with one cutback week of 15<br>
Nov: 30 mpw with cutback week of 20<br>
Dec: 35 mpw with 2 cutback weeks of 25<br><br>
I'm still doing speedwork once/week, but just 2 miles worth (plus WU & CD) and that's it. So the speedwork is not taxing.<br><br>
The first week of 35 mpw produced a relapse in my PF. I have to be more careful on the trails. I will extend the 35 mpw for another 2 to 4 weeks (following the 6 week rule), I think, before I move to 40 mpw.<br><br>
Is everyone sleepy & bored now? Let me tell you about my diet!!!<br><br>
Wow, lots of good advice for my somewhat whiny question today! So six weeks is the magic number, eh? Good to know. Considering I'm in my fourth week of 22+ miles, I can relax and understand it's just part of the process. Very good!<br><br>
And no worries, ksrunr, I'm fully aware of that magic 10% number. A couple years back, one of the previous times I had restarted running, I was increasingly diligent with that amount, rebuilding my 3x/week 3 mile runs to 6 miles each, and it really felt great. Only thing is, I also worked on increasing my speed at the same time, which I now have learned is a no-no. Having patience is a toughie for me, it seems. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
So millbot, taking a slacker week is OK? REALLY? Wow, who knew....<br><br>
At the risk of TMI, my cycle's gotten all messed up this past month as well, pretty much shut down, so yeah, I guess I really have overdone it playing catchup like this. With my current schedule, I really can't see devoting anymore time to running right now, and it feels too good at the pace I'm going to try to speed up, so I really have no intention of increasing my weekly mileage. Hopefully things will normalize by next month.<br><br>
Thanks again, everyone, for all your wisdom and support. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
I have nothing to add to Millbot's erudite post regarding mileage buildup, (except to say that Econo you should not be doing even that little bit of speed during mileage growth). I will add that I like 3 weeks of work and then a cutback week, as for older runners it seems to make more sense. Millbot says "four weeks or so" I believe, but here is a good rule of thumb that has worked for me when I am in hard training. Get in the habit of taking your pulse in the morning. If you hit a day when it's 8-10 bpm higher, and you will be surprised how often that occurs, then you need a day off or a light day. This approach allows you to make decisions day by day rather than week by week and the logic of this approach is easy to see.<br><br>
As for doubles, you have to already have a good mileage base and program as KS obviously does. He is up around 70+ mpw and his first taper week is in the 50's, just about perfect for him.<br><br>
Jim24315 and others have commented about doubles that they "trick" your body into faster recovery and really help you build strength. Although you can do doubles during mileage buildup time, most competitive runners do them when they already have a decent base. Lydiard didn't like doubles during the mileage buildup for reasons that should be obvious, one of them being the opportunity to stress the body just once, and take advantage of the changes in HR and blood flow.<br><br>
On the other hand, the runner who is already doing a lot of mileage can certainly benefit from working out twice a day. Here is what the Kenyans do in training camp:<br><br><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">The basic structure therefore of the Kenyan training day in camp is:</span></span><br><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">5.30am get up</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">6.00am compulsory morning run (40-90 minutes)</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">breakfast</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">10.00am hard work (hills or intervals)</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">food and rest, maybe sleep</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">4.00pm – individual training, this is very much up to each athlete, some may just rest, others do 10-20 minutes only, others 60 minutes</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">food</span></span><br><span style="font-family:Symbol;"><span style="font-size:medium;">·</span></span> <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-size:medium;">7.00 - 9.00pm bed</span></span><br><br>
That individual training cited above may not be any running, but form drills, core work, weights, plyometrics etc. Note that their second running workout follows the early morning workout quite soon. The morning workout is always done by time, never mileage. This is a great idea that we ought to follow more closely. We are too much engaged in mileage. I believe if many women who think of themselves as slow runners would just run to time and not feel competitive about the miles, they would get in shape quite easily and without injury risks.<br><br>
In England and Australia you hear the word "sessions" used more than the word "intervals" here, and I like that word because intervals confuses people. (The "interval" is the rest period you take after a fast work bout.) So a well-trained runner would do a gentle long run in the morning of about ten miles. Consider that at faster than a 7 minute mile pace this is only about an hour jog for them. In the afternoon would be a shorter workout, five miles or so, incorporating some speed, never the same thing day after day, perhaps a hill workout, fartlek work etc. but the opportunity to goose it a bit is always later in the day.<br><br>
With the exception of very good runners who are already in race shape, as KS is, JPGarland over on Active, Jim24315 himself, there are not many runners on this forum who could engage in this type of training, and it takes a very long time to get the basic "entry fee" of general conditioning to do this. At my age, of over 60 it would be a year at least.<br><br>
The routine I pasted above comes from notes my nephew sent me from an international forum which covered many subjects, not the least of which was the Kenyans' routines, elite female marathoners, etc. I am happy to share the entire doc with anyone who wants it. I am at: spareribs823 at gmail dot com. Spareribs
