Ramping Up Mileage

hally · Dec 28, 2007

Millbot PM'ed me to remind me we could merge threads and stuff here so..... 
Going to copy Orange Mat's post here and go from there

hally · Dec 28, 2007

OK, I really screwed that up and don't know how to undo it. 
BUT..........I do have all the posts so I will just paste them here. 
I apologize profusely, and blame Millbot for telling me to try it cause he had to run <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> 
I'm going to take this as permission to record some thoughts. Thank you, OM. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> 
When I have increased mileage, I have felt more fatigued for two or three weeks, and then I can feel that my body is adapting. After about six weeks, the new mileage feels no harder than the old. I believe this matches what Daniels says (allow six weeks for your body to adapt). 
How to increase mileage without injuring yourself is a fascinating question (at least to me). Personally I wouldn't feel bad about breaking the 10% rule occasionally. Here are some other recommendations:
<ul><li>Increase mileage by no more than one mile for each run per week. For example, if you run 5x per week, increase by up to 5 miles per week. This alternative to the 10% rule is from Daniels.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Increase in stages. In other words, increase your mileage, then stay at that level for a few weeks before increasing again (Pfitzinger recommends 2-3 weeks). You won't really know how your body is handling the increased load until you stick with it for a while.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Don't do speed work and increase your mileage at the same time.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Take regular cutback weeks. Every four weeks or so, cut your mileage by 20-30%, and then return to your previous mileage the following week.</li>
</ul><ul><li>Watch for signs of overtraining. If you feel unusually sore or tired, or you begin to lose interest in running, you are probably not recovering, and you need to adjust something.</li>
</ul>
There's a lot of experience on the board. What else would you say in response to OM's question? 
Millbot makes some very good points and I don't have any suggestions to add. I wish I had always followed those points! In fact I injured myself about 6-7 weeks ago, possibly during a long hard run. I just did a very similar run last night (not quite as hard) and I'm fine, so I guess for me with rest, XT and carefully ramping up during that time period the body has adapted. 
I had a good 3-miler at lunchtime on the Bricktown Canal. 34 degrees and overcast-ideal running conditions, wouldn't you say? I was in a short-sleeve shirt and shorts so I got a few looks. I did have gloves on.<img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> I set the Garmin on Auto-Lap per mile and did 9:55, 9:54 and 10:06, a little fast. In fact it told me several times to slow down (and then to speed up). Back in the Y, I spent a long time stretching and it felt great. 
Tomorrow I'm taking the day off and will probably go out to eat with DW (and run of course). 
This is interesting. I might give it a go. I've been a little too timid since my encounter with bursitis in my hip last summer. I don't believe it would be too much, since I think the bursitis was caused by wearing a different type of shoe. 
OM - anytime I've felt that way, I took a cutback week. Try it and see how it goes. 
Speaking of runs - 3 miles on the 'mill in 32:55. A total bleh run. 
I'm using the "ramp 'n hold" method of increasing mileage. 
Oct: 25 mpw with one cutback week of 15 
Nov: 30 mpw with cutback week of 20 
Dec: 35 mpw with 2 cutback weeks of 25 
I'm still doing speedwork once/week, but just 2 miles worth (plus WU & CD) and that's it. So the speedwork is not taxing. 
The first week of 35 mpw produced a relapse in my PF. I have to be more careful on the trails. I will extend the 35 mpw for another 2 to 4 weeks (following the 6 week rule), I think, before I move to 40 mpw. 
Is everyone sleepy & bored now? Let me tell you about my diet!!! 
Wow, lots of good advice for my somewhat whiny question today! So six weeks is the magic number, eh? Good to know. Considering I'm in my fourth week of 22+ miles, I can relax and understand it's just part of the process. Very good! 
And no worries, ksrunr, I'm fully aware of that magic 10% number. A couple years back, one of the previous times I had restarted running, I was increasingly diligent with that amount, rebuilding my 3x/week 3 mile runs to 6 miles each, and it really felt great. Only thing is, I also worked on increasing my speed at the same time, which I now have learned is a no-no. Having patience is a toughie for me, it seems. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> 
So millbot, taking a slacker week is OK? REALLY? Wow, who knew.... 
At the risk of TMI, my cycle's gotten all messed up this past month as well, pretty much shut down, so yeah, I guess I really have overdone it playing catchup like this. With my current schedule, I really can't see devoting anymore time to running right now, and it feels too good at the pace I'm going to try to speed up, so I really have no intention of increasing my weekly mileage. Hopefully things will normalize by next month. 
Thanks again, everyone, for all your wisdom and support. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> 
I have nothing to add to Millbot's erudite post regarding mileage buildup, (except to say that Econo you should not be doing even that little bit of speed during mileage growth). I will add that I like 3 weeks of work and then a cutback week, as for older runners it seems to make more sense. Millbot says "four weeks or so" I believe, but here is a good rule of thumb that has worked for me when I am in hard training. Get in the habit of taking your pulse in the morning. If you hit a day when it's 8-10 bpm higher, and you will be surprised how often that occurs, then you need a day off or a light day. This approach allows you to make decisions day by day rather than week by week and the logic of this approach is easy to see. 
As for doubles, you have to already have a good mileage base and program as KS obviously does. He is up around 70+ mpw and his first taper week is in the 50's, just about perfect for him. 
Jim24315 and others have commented about doubles that they "trick" your body into faster recovery and really help you build strength. Although you can do doubles during mileage buildup time, most competitive runners do them when they already have a decent base. Lydiard didn't like doubles during the mileage buildup for reasons that should be obvious, one of them being the opportunity to stress the body just once, and take advantage of the changes in HR and blood flow. 
On the other hand, the runner who is already doing a lot of mileage can certainly benefit from working out twice a day. Here is what the Kenyans do in training camp: The basic structure therefore of the Kenyan training day in camp is: · 5.30am get up · 6.00am compulsory morning run (40-90 minutes) · breakfast · 10.00am hard work (hills or intervals) · food and rest, maybe sleep · 4.00pm – individual training, this is very much up to each athlete, some may just rest, others do 10-20 minutes only, others 60 minutes · food · 7.00 - 9.00pm bed 
That individual training cited above may not be any running, but form drills, core work, weights, plyometrics etc. Note that their second running workout follows the early morning workout quite soon. The morning workout is always done by time, never mileage. This is a great idea that we ought to follow more closely. We are too much engaged in mileage. I believe if many women who think of themselves as slow runners would just run to time and not feel competitive about the miles, they would get in shape quite easily and without injury risks. 
In England and Australia you hear the word "sessions" used more than the word "intervals" here, and I like that word because intervals confuses people. (The "interval" is the rest period you take after a fast work bout.) So a well-trained runner would do a gentle long run in the morning of about ten miles. Consider that at faster than a 7 minute mile pace this is only about an hour jog for them. In the afternoon would be a shorter workout, five miles or so, incorporating some speed, never the same thing day after day, perhaps a hill workout, fartlek work etc. but the opportunity to goose it a bit is always later in the day. 
With the exception of very good runners who are already in race shape, as KS is, JPGarland over on Active, Jim24315 himself, there are not many runners on this forum who could engage in this type of training, and it takes a very long time to get the basic "entry fee" of general conditioning to do this. At my age, of over 60 it would be a year at least. 
The routine I pasted above comes from notes my nephew sent me from an international forum which covered many subjects, not the least of which was the Kenyans' routines, elite female marathoners, etc. I am happy to share the entire doc with anyone who wants it. I am at: spareribs823 at gmail dot com. Spareribs

tigger · Dec 28, 2007

If you are only running 5 or 6 miles per week I'd say forget the 10% rule. If you can run 5 miles you should be able to run 5 miles every second day, and a couple of miles on the in between days. Couple that with a 9 mile long run and you're at 25 miles per week with a day off!!

Dirt the other white meat · Dec 28, 2007

posted in the daily as well: 
When I ramp up from 30 to 60+ mpw, I do it in 5 mile increments and hold for 2 wks. It would look something like this. 30, 30, 35, 35, 40, 30, 40, 45, 45, 35, 50, 50, 55, 40, 55, 55, 60. When I cut back, I usually cut back to 75% of the high (and round to even mileage) I sometimes get creative w/my build-up, but that is my basic plan. 
When you have a good base, you can ramp up more quickly, but like the pro said, be smart and balance the two 
Mike

Aija · Dec 28, 2007

Thanks for this thread. I've been a slacker for various reasons lately and since I'm aiming for a May marathon, I needed a refresher on all this stuff. Don't want to get injured or overdo the ramp. 
Aija

La Tortuga · Dec 29, 2007

x-training can also have a place in ramping up. This allows one to build up other muscles without overusing or injuring others. For example 10 minutes on a stationary bike three times a week can add to one's fitness without causing further strain to areas stressed by running.

tagrunner · Dec 31, 2007

This is all good advice. Now if people would just follow it. <img alt="huh.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/huh.gif">

OrangeMat · Jun 20, 2008

I went back to search for this thread, and since I'm starting to feel at the same point I was at when I first posted my questions, I thought I'd bring it back up to the forefront. 
Hamstring issues notwithstanding, I'm now back up to 20 mpw, over the course of 5 days/week, which seems to be a healthy threshold for me. I ran good and strong the first three weeks at this mileage, and but this week I started to feel sluggish again. So OK, I cut out yesterday's scheduled 3-miler and hopefully finish out the week at 15-16 miles for a cutback week. 
But as I had mentioned in my original questions back in December, my cycle's cut out on me yet again. 20 mpw is NOT overtraining, and seeing as I've been physically active and fit, cardio-wise as well as strength, for the majority of my adult life, I really don't understand. Sorry about the female TMI here, but seriously: amenorrhea at a lousy 20 miles per week?? 
So if anyone has any insights or advice (other than sending me to my gyno who will say that, yeah sure, at 46 years old, stuff is going to start being weird), I'd really appreciate that. The pattern of mileage relating to missed months is unmistakable. I really don't want to run less, and would actually prefer to run more. Since when did I get so delicate?? <img alt="sad2.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad2.gif">

Mustang Sally · Jun 20, 2008

Well, at 46 years old, stuff is going to start being weird. 
You're fit and strong: is your body fat at a nice healthy level? Do you ramp up your food when you're running to keep well-fuelled? 
If so, check in with the gyno so that you, and she, are comfortable that the rest of your body is in good health, and then, maybe enjoy this next stage of life a little. She might want to check on bone health and overall hormone levels to help confirm that there is nothing unusual happening.

lamerunner · Jun 20, 2008

Orange, are you at a healthy weight for you? We are all different but I tend to agree that amenorreah is odd at 20 mpw. But things do change in our mid 40s. I am between 45 and 55 mpw with no disruption in cycle. I am 47, pretty lean but certainly not skinny. No harm in talking to the gyno but as long as all is well with your bones, keep on running!

lamerunner · Jun 20, 2008

One other thought; has thyroid function been checked? Low thyroid can cause both sluggishness and disruption in cycles.

Sans Souci · Jun 20, 2008

OM, what Sally and lamerunner said. 
Just wanted to highlight this gem. We enter this next phase of our lives at different ages, but why fight it with angst and hormone therapy? I think we can deal with the physical changes much easier this way. The emotional weirdness can be a bit grating, but attitude is everything. 
Yes, there are exceptions, I know. But for most normal, healthy women, as we say here, enjoy the gift.

ksrunr · Jun 20, 2008

Good discussion. If you've got some base (25-30 mpw); I don't think a little speed work is going to hurt while ramping up as long as it's controlled and not excessive. All slow miles makes ksrunr a slow runr. Speed work doesn't have to be all out track workouts. They can be hills on your route, fartleks, and tempos. Pfitz includes a little speed in his 18 week run up. The best advice is to listen to your body. I've run so many years I can bend the rules a bit a get away with it.<img alt="huh.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/huh.gif"> When I was training to run my first 50 milers I did no speed work. It took me about 2 years to get back to where I could run 5k's again. Wish I had thrown in some speed training the ultras too. Enough rambling. 
OM - the elite women don't have cycles. They're to thin with no body fat. What the ladies said. My dw had the worst opposite of your condition at 51. Had to take care of that with a little surgery 1st of year. I think she would have traded conditions on many occassions <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif">

OrangeMat · Jun 20, 2008

Thanks all for your feedback thus far. If anything, my body fat is too high than too low (overly healthy, perhaps? hah). SS, I am in total agreement with you regarding hormone therapy, not going to be for me at all. I'm just somewhat surprised that with the little bit of running that I do that my system is so touchy like this. Over the winter, it took three months for my cycle to return. That just doesn't seem right to me. If things are changing, so be it. If I were running 40+ mpw, fine, I could understand. But a piddling 20 compared to 10-15?? 
I'm 5'2.5" and 134 lbs at the moment, higher than I've been in the past but an acceptable amount in that I wear a size 4. I've been noticing changes now for the past 7 years (yes, I'm that advanced, what can I say?). My diet could definitely use some tweaking (lacto/ovo/pescatarian) to remove some fat and sweets, but for the most part I feel fine. The only reason I posed this question this month (yes, it's only been one month) because of the trend I noticed last time. I'd prefer not to get my doc involved, because his advice has always been to treat with HT, or just to deal. Nice, eh?

ksrunr · Jun 20, 2008

OM - maybe another doc might give you some help you're looking for. Some just don't seem sensitive to our lifestyles. Oh, and size 4 is pretty petite.....just sayin.

OrangeMat · Jun 20, 2008

ksrunr, yes, that was my point. While 134 is rather hefty for most women my height, how I actually fit in my clothes doesn't really reflect it. Needless to say, no way am I too thin. <img alt="roll_eyes.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/roll_eyes.gif">

ziggyrottie · Jun 24, 2008

I started running last May and trained for a marathon in Oct last year. My period stopped at about the half way point in my trainning which I was very happy for. After the marathon I stopped running for about 2 to 4 weeks my period came back as normal. So it could be the running. I also found out this year that my hormone levels were down. I knew this when I turned 29 I had a hot flash at work. I did nothing about it. So here I am in the change in life I am now on HT and let me tell you I love it. I have NO hot flashes at night or durning the day my feelings are in check and I feel GREAT!! My doctor was very good about telling me everything I needed to know about the HT and if I wanted to go natural than she would do what ever I wanted. She told me to try the over the counter stuff and see if it helped. I did and it did nothing for me. So I decided I wanted the HT and that is what I got. About your weight you probale have a lot of muscle weight not fat weight I am 5 1 and weight about 126 I don't look thin either. Sorry about the spelling errors I am not a good speller when I type I go to fast.

riley0003 · Jun 24, 2008

OM, I've been on HRT for 23 years following a hysterectomy. My younger sister, who is now 46, is beginning menopause. She is small and thin and has been a serious runner since college, despite developing MS in her 20s. Some people just seem to start menopause earlier than others. She has decided not to do HRT but is having a very tough time with dryness, body shape changes (without a difference in weight), hot sweats, irritability and serious mood swings. Of course, she has 3 teenagers so the mood swings may come from that! 
My dr and I have discussed discontinuing the HRT but I don't want to do that. My mom took part in that famous study a couple of years ago, but she had a placebo. If you have any questions about HRT and want to hear my experiences, I'd be happy to chat with you off-list. 
Susan

Ramping Up Mileage

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