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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When you swim a long distance in the pool... do you always push hard from the wall? I was thinking I shouldn't do it, since that would be cheating against the open water conditions... I push very easily... until later in the workout when I get tired and feel tempted to push harder and harder. So, push or not push?
 

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I barely push off, even when doing one my comical flipturns. If I am going to have calf cramps in the pool, it will be right after a push off. Plus, what is the use of gliding for maybe 15+% in a 25m pool?<br><br>
It will be hard for someone to convince me of the use in a hard push off. I will give them the logic of a flipturn duing a workout, but a hard push off? I don't think so.<br><br>
Jim
 

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For me, it kinda' takes care of itself. My pushoffs suck, and in a way, I liken it to the way I slow down after a sighting attempt.<br><br>
But like jkaiser, if someone can convince me it's worth my while to improve my pushoffs at the wall, I'll add that to the "need to improve" list in the pool.
 

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my book (Steve Tarpinian) says to get as much speed as possible off the wall. Rationale being; becoming a fast swimmer is all about getting used to going fast in the water. Worth thinking about.
 

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stepping back to the big picture... right now (winter for me) that's the least of my problems.<br><br>
I do push - don't flip - and just don't worry about it. As you pound out longer and longer sets, it's not enough time to really "rest" so I'm not sure it matters too much.<br><br>
If you really want to, you can circle swim - but that also isn't quite like racing, like pushing it - but it will remove that cheat.<br><br>
I dont bother though, I'm working on my form instead.<br><br>
Not sure where you are with your swimming, but once you get the muscular endurance to do 3000+, then the pushing issue is pretty minor and you should focus on form, form, form - because that's something we can all keep improving on, ad naseum!
 

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I have actually thought about this. Sometimes when I do give a stronger push, I think 'wow I feel a ton of drag' Then I think of creating a little harness connected to something like a fish scale (the mechical scale not the little things on the fish!) and have someone pull me down the pool at a certain speed and I would try to decrease the reading on the scale while just gliding along.<br><br>
As my swim gets more and more boring, I take it to another level and imagine a HUD in my goggles that gives me the number so I could have instant feedback as I roll or twist to try and get slicker in the water. Sometimes I am pretty bored...<br><br>
Jim
 

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Jim, there's a place in Austria that does just that - I think it's something like endless-sports, or something along those lines. You hold a rope, and sit in a flume - they measure the drag you produce.<br><br>
Me, I like getting a good push off the wall - it helps get me in the right place to swim well.
 

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You could think of them as 1 rep plyometric jumps. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
I push, but then, I also train for master's swim meets in addition to running and now tri. The push off the wall is one way that I can feel when my quads are working.
 

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My swim coach said I shouldn't push hard off the wall. Just hard enough to get me moving forward again. I want to get the most out of the 25yd pool. A good push off gives you 10yds, leaving you with only 15yds for actual swim.
 

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You should push hard enough to get to your speed. You don't want to lolly off the wall because you then have to work harder (with bad form) to get back into your rhythm. Swim is all about staying smooth and rhythmical. You should not be fluctuating your speed up and down within each rep.<br><br>
The push should get you to your speed so you can start the lap without having to pull harder or slow to get comfy.<br><br>
How far you travel is an individual thing. I have a spot on the wall I try to hit. It's just far enough to make me hold my breath and not far enough to make me out of breath.<br><br>
CS<br><br>
I'd love to hear what CC says about this.
 

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1! for CS. I push off with enough force to keep me going at the same speed I had going into the wall.<br><br>
I'm always surprised at how easily Tri folks find reasons to stray from what most competitive swimmers would do during workouts. In the grand scheme of things, doing gentle pushoffs because it might somehow better simulate open water swimming seems pretty far down the list of things one should do to improve their swimming (if it improves it at all). Developing a keener water feel by improving streamline on the pushoff seems more valuable to me. I'm not advocating to rocket off on every push off, but certainly on a hard 50 you should be going hard the entire 50...including push off. It's amazing how much you can feel about your body position on the occasional hard push off.
 

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1 CS<br>
1 Mel...<br><br>
And.....for me, the push off the wall is a chance to reestablish my nice streamlined body position. A reminder. I"m all stretched out, feeling the water flow by....<br><br>
and, it's also my "bugaboo" that I"m having to always remember, not to breathe in or out of walls...... it also helps with breath control for my swims.
 

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<br>
I do the same thing, although my flips are pretty inefficient and I lose most of my speed in them anyway.<br><br>
I think that simulating sighting in open water swims by periodically lifting your head and doing "Tarzan Swimming" is a better way to prepare for open water.<br><br>
Jon
 

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When doing a long swim I push off the wall hard enough to maintain the pace. Usually it's not a hard push as the pace is not as fast as a shorter distance. I try to keep everything uniform throughout the swim, i.e. swim the same pace at the end as at the beginning.<br><br>
FWIW I usually try to do each workout (swim, bike, run) as an individual sport and don't worry about how it relates to triathlon. Swim like a swimmer, bike like a biker, etc. Tri related workouts are done when performing bricks.
 

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I am with you, Don (except I have no idea about 'bike like a biker' part). I have a feeling that many tri coaches would say this is NOT a right approach, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Oh, THAT's what it's supposed to be?? Well, then I got it all wrong.<br>
I used to swim like a cheetah and bike like a dolphin, and somehow it didn't always workout very well.
 

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I find that if I push off too hard I end up with toe cramps and get tired quicker. I push off just enough to keep myself at the pace I was going. Dammit I need to find a new pool. I *REALLY* miss swimming.
 

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Stitch...I breathe after I come up from my flippie.<br><br>
I ain't changing that!
 

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<img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
No huge need to.....unless you're planning on doing sprints or distance pool swimming, then, that extra breath will suck speed from you that you don't realize.<br><br>
When I get tired, I go back to doing it.....but as long as possible, I try to keep from doing it. :shrug:
 

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I push off the wall after I flip just to keep up with the rest of the group. Typically I'm in a lane with people that are slightly faster than me, so anywhere I can get some speed I'll take it! I agree with whoever (stitch?) said that it's a good way to get that streamline feeling back. Sort of reinforces body position for me.
 
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