Paying for School
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Tech Tee</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1800776"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My daughter just got accepted at an "affordable" school. Cost with room and board, $30K/year.<br><br>
She got a $7500/year scholarship. nice. Real nice. But still, that's insane.<br><br>
She is in line to get accepted at another school that has about $40K tuition/room/board, with an $18K scholarship.<br><br>
So, a bit less money, but still...in fucking sane.<br><br>
Yeah, I know it was a LONG....LONG....time ago, but my entire college education including tuition, books, room and board, beer, etc was $12,000.<br><br>
Crazy.</div>
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Now you are charged what they determine you can afford to cough up, not the cost of the education. It may be much less, about the same or much more than the cost of providing it. The education industry has a nice edge too - a highly detailed report of your family income, assets and net worth.<br><br>
If you are paying the list price for the education or something close to it, your best value is the best in-state public colleges. Out-of-state public colleges and 2nd and 3rd rate private schools are well down the value scale. If your kid is truly an elite student, an elite school can also be a good overall value.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Tech Tee</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1800776"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My daughter just got accepted at an "affordable" school. Cost with room and board, $30K/year.<br><br>
She got a $7500/year scholarship. nice. Real nice. But still, that's insane.<br><br>
She is in line to get accepted at another school that has about $40K tuition/room/board, with an $18K scholarship.<br><br>
So, a bit less money, but still...in fucking sane.<br><br>
Yeah, I know it was a LONG....LONG....time ago, but my entire college education including tuition, books, room and board, beer, etc was $12,000.<br><br>
Crazy.</div>
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Now you are charged what they determine you can afford to cough up, not the cost of the education. It may be much less, about the same or much more than the cost of providing it. The education industry has a nice edge too - a highly detailed report of your family income, assets and net worth.<br><br>
If you are paying the list price for the education or something close to it, your best value is the best in-state public colleges. Out-of-state public colleges and 2nd and 3rd rate private schools are well down the value scale. If your kid is truly an elite student, an elite school can also be a good overall value.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Tech Tee</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1800779"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">higher education was the 10th largest "business" in the US...<br><br>
Something is not right with that.</div>
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No freaking kidding. That's what I meant about waay too many people going.<br><br>
Some didn't agree it should be the rich as well as the smart, but the rich are gonna be there in a capitalist country no matter what we wish for. Besides their money builds the buildings and stadiums and provides funds so at least some smart, but not rich, can attend. Generally you can tell easily if a graduate was there because they were rich OR smart. George Bush graduated from Yale. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Smile">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Tech Tee</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1800779"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">higher education was the 10th largest "business" in the US...<br><br>
Something is not right with that.</div>
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No freaking kidding. That's what I meant about waay too many people going.<br><br>
Some didn't agree it should be the rich as well as the smart, but the rich are gonna be there in a capitalist country no matter what we wish for. Besides their money builds the buildings and stadiums and provides funds so at least some smart, but not rich, can attend. Generally you can tell easily if a graduate was there because they were rich OR smart. George Bush graduated from Yale. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Smile">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jcumming</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1800920"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">No freaking kidding. That's what I meant about waay too many people going.<br><br>
Some didn't agree it should be the rich as well as the smart, but the rich are gonna be there in a capitalist countryno matter what we wish for. Besides their money builds the buildings and stadiums and provides funds so at least some smart, but not rich, can attend. Generally you can tell ieasily f a graduate was there because they were rich OR smart. George Bush graduated from Yale. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Smile"></div>
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If you had said rich OR smart...
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jcumming</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1800920"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">No freaking kidding. That's what I meant about waay too many people going.<br><br>
Some didn't agree it should be the rich as well as the smart, but the rich are gonna be there in a capitalist countryno matter what we wish for. Besides their money builds the buildings and stadiums and provides funds so at least some smart, but not rich, can attend. Generally you can tell ieasily f a graduate was there because they were rich OR smart. George Bush graduated from Yale. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Smile"></div>
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If you had said rich OR smart...
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jcumming</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1799557"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think too many people are going to college. The great majority of them would be better off with some training for a job. They get a useless degree, think they are educated and deserve a high paying position...and are employed in an area where the degree was only useful in keeping them out of the job force for an extra 4 years.<br><br>
I believe college should be reserved for the rich and the smart...like in the olden days.</div>
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Dude. Except the rich part...
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jcumming</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1799557"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think too many people are going to college. The great majority of them would be better off with some training for a job. They get a useless degree, think they are educated and deserve a high paying position...and are employed in an area where the degree was only useful in keeping them out of the job force for an extra 4 years.<br><br>
I believe college should be reserved for the rich and the smart...like in the olden days.</div>
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Dude. Except the rich part...
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jenna</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1799508"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Honestly, I think If a person gives 5+ years to the military in service to the country then 4 to 5 years of college should be free. Other than that I think it shoould be pay as you go.</div>
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I object to war on moral grounds and do not want to be trained to be part of one.<br><br>
Far more laudable, in my opinion, would be to pay off by means of service to the elderly, the needy in this country or a devastated area abroad.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jenna</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1799508"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Honestly, I think If a person gives 5+ years to the military in service to the country then 4 to 5 years of college should be free. Other than that I think it shoould be pay as you go.</div>
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I object to war on moral grounds and do not want to be trained to be part of one.<br><br>
Far more laudable, in my opinion, would be to pay off by means of service to the elderly, the needy in this country or a devastated area abroad.
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You Merkuns seem to think people should be kept out of college just because they aren't smart even though they (or more likely their families) are rich.<br><br>
Don't be silly. That's a noble thought, but let's be just a tiny bit pragmatic. Money is power in areas like that. You can protesrt against it, but you may as well protest against darkness coming after sundown. Better to just make the best of it and use it. Give the smart people (even if they are rich) all the $$$$ you can and charge the rich incredibly exhorbitant tuition fees. They'll pay.<br><br>
Another way to make it work is just to allow the very rich to buy their degree. I'm sure this is done in lots of places already. No problem as long as it is in something airy fairy and not medicine.
Don't be silly. That's a noble thought, but let's be just a tiny bit pragmatic. Money is power in areas like that. You can protesrt against it, but you may as well protest against darkness coming after sundown. Better to just make the best of it and use it. Give the smart people (even if they are rich) all the $$$$ you can and charge the rich incredibly exhorbitant tuition fees. They'll pay.<br><br>
Another way to make it work is just to allow the very rich to buy their degree. I'm sure this is done in lots of places already. No problem as long as it is in something airy fairy and not medicine.
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I used to see billboards on my commute that said No Education = No Future. I think that mindset has to bear some of the blame. First, it couldn't be further from the truth. Plenty of high-school drop-outs running successful plumbing and HVAC business out there. Second, it gives those who might be successful in the trades the wrong idea about what is valued. Why not just put up a billboard that says, "Plumbers Suck!"?
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kerfwango</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801429"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I used to see billboards on my commute that said No Education = No Future. I think that mindset has to bear some of the blame. First, it couldn't be further from the truth. Plenty of high-school drop-outs running successful plumbing and HVAC business out there. Second, it gives those who might be successful in the trades the wrong idea about what is valued. Why not just put up a billboard that says, "Plumbers Suck!"?</div>
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I would argue that those running successful business's, for the most part, have received an excellent education somewhere if not through traditional, formal means.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kerfwango</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801429"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I used to see billboards on my commute that said No Education = No Future. I think that mindset has to bear some of the blame. First, it couldn't be further from the truth. Plenty of high-school drop-outs running successful plumbing and HVAC business out there. Second, it gives those who might be successful in the trades the wrong idea about what is valued. Why not just put up a billboard that says, "Plumbers Suck!"?</div>
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I would argue that those running successful business's, for the most part, have received an excellent education somewhere if not through traditional, formal means.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>OakDawg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801446"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would argue that those running successful business's, for the most part, have received an excellent education somewhere if not through traditional, formal means.</div>
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I would also argue that in this day and age learning a trade takes a significant amount of theoretical and practical education. Being without a HS diploma and some form of post HS certification is pretty much a guarantee of poverty and limited job choices.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>OakDawg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801446"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would argue that those running successful business's, for the most part, have received an excellent education somewhere if not through traditional, formal means.</div>
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I would also argue that in this day and age learning a trade takes a significant amount of theoretical and practical education. Being without a HS diploma and some form of post HS certification is pretty much a guarantee of poverty and limited job choices.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>OakDawg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801446"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would argue that those running successful business's, for the most part, have received an excellent education somewhere if not through traditional, formal means.</div>
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Yeah, I kinda thought the distinction between formal education and otherwise was built in to the thread but...you're right.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>OakDawg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801446"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would argue that those running successful business's, for the most part, have received an excellent education somewhere if not through traditional, formal means.</div>
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Yeah, I kinda thought the distinction between formal education and otherwise was built in to the thread but...you're right.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Mrtambalynman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801488"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would also argue that in this day and age learning a trade takes a significant amount of theoretical and practical education. Being without a HS diploma and some form of post HS certification is pretty much a guarantee of poverty and limited job choices.</div>
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I suppose it all depends on your situation and opportunity, but I don't think anyone would argue that dropping out of high school is a good idea.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kerfwango</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801509"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yeah, I kinda thought the distinction between formal education and otherwise was built in to the thread but...you're right.</div>
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It is, I just thought it was a point that needed to be made. Too often, I think, people equate education with school when, in reality there are a number of ways to get one.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Mrtambalynman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801488"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would also argue that in this day and age learning a trade takes a significant amount of theoretical and practical education. Being without a HS diploma and some form of post HS certification is pretty much a guarantee of poverty and limited job choices.</div>
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I suppose it all depends on your situation and opportunity, but I don't think anyone would argue that dropping out of high school is a good idea.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kerfwango</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801509"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yeah, I kinda thought the distinction between formal education and otherwise was built in to the thread but...you're right.</div>
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It is, I just thought it was a point that needed to be made. Too often, I think, people equate education with school when, in reality there are a number of ways to get one.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kerfwango</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801509"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yeah, I kinda thought the distinction between formal education and otherwise was built in to the thread but...you're right.</div>
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No, I agree with you. the bias in the discussion was towards university/college education. I think the issue of what is the appropriate way to educate certain professions is a good one too. The university model dates back to medieval times and isn't the most efficient tool for educating the majority of professionals IMHO.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kerfwango</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801509"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yeah, I kinda thought the distinction between formal education and otherwise was built in to the thread but...you're right.</div>
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No, I agree with you. the bias in the discussion was towards university/college education. I think the issue of what is the appropriate way to educate certain professions is a good one too. The university model dates back to medieval times and isn't the most efficient tool for educating the majority of professionals IMHO.
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it's becoming nearly impossible to legally be employed in many things unless you have some cont'd ed, esp college with CEUs/CECs ... if you don't have paperwork to back up your experience you are pretty much screwed to the wall ... even my brother that's been in the steel industry about 20 years and been First Helper/quasi-supervisory position for much of that time gets flack for not having proper degrees that have become popular in the past decade or so ...<br><br>
you can't even become a shift super at most fast food places w/o college and/or an actual degree <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/roll_eyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll_eyes"><br><br><br><br>
... but ... you can substitute teach in public school systems just because you have a college degree, regardless of what the degree is in? (I may be wrong on this but believe this happens locally and that I am not wrong ...)<br><br><br>
I am jaded about this entire issue, obviously ... and have little factual data to back up my gut feelings on it ... but it seems to me that what was said in an earlier reply about college degrees = HS diploma nowadays ... no guarantee you'll get a job, let alone one in whatever you majored in, but without it you're almost certainly guaranteed to not get a single 40-50 HPW job making living wages ...
you can't even become a shift super at most fast food places w/o college and/or an actual degree <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/forum/images/smilies/roll_eyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll_eyes"><br><br><br><br>
... but ... you can substitute teach in public school systems just because you have a college degree, regardless of what the degree is in? (I may be wrong on this but believe this happens locally and that I am not wrong ...)<br><br><br>
I am jaded about this entire issue, obviously ... and have little factual data to back up my gut feelings on it ... but it seems to me that what was said in an earlier reply about college degrees = HS diploma nowadays ... no guarantee you'll get a job, let alone one in whatever you majored in, but without it you're almost certainly guaranteed to not get a single 40-50 HPW job making living wages ...
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>OakDawg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801514"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It is, I just thought it was a point that needed to be made. Too often, I think, people equate education with school when, in reality there are a number of ways to get one.</div>
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It's like Mark Twain said..."Don't let your schooling interfere with your education."
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>OakDawg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801514"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It is, I just thought it was a point that needed to be made. Too often, I think, people equate education with school when, in reality there are a number of ways to get one.</div>
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It's like Mark Twain said..."Don't let your schooling interfere with your education."
I know someone who makes around $130K a year at a coal fired power plant as a senior mechanic with a HS diploma. They start new mechanics at $70K and have a very difficult time finding qualified employees. You must be a welder and be able to think it terms of a large complex system that is operating while you are working on it. They have had some luck recruiting people coming from the Navy who were onboard welders on ships and subs.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MnD</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801568"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I know someone who makes around $130K a year at a coal fired power plant as a senior mechanic with a HS diploma. They start new mechanics at $70K and have a very difficult time finding qualified employees. You must be a welder and be able to think it terms of a large complex system that is operating while you are working on it. They have had some luck recruiting people coming from the Navy who were onboard welders on ships and subs.</div>
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I am guessing that this person is no spring chicken and has been around for a long time doing this ... like my brother ... and that a younger person wanting to get their foot in the door would need some sort of degree/certification to even get in the door ... just guessing.
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MnD</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801568"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I know someone who makes around $130K a year at a coal fired power plant as a senior mechanic with a HS diploma. They start new mechanics at $70K and have a very difficult time finding qualified employees. You must be a welder and be able to think it terms of a large complex system that is operating while you are working on it. They have had some luck recruiting people coming from the Navy who were onboard welders on ships and subs.</div>
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<br><br><br>
I am guessing that this person is no spring chicken and has been around for a long time doing this ... like my brother ... and that a younger person wanting to get their foot in the door would need some sort of degree/certification to even get in the door ... just guessing.
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MnD</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801568"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I know someone who makes around $130K a year at a coal fired power plant as a senior mechanic with a HS diploma. They start new mechanics at $70K and have a very difficult time finding qualified employees. You must be a welder and be able to think it terms of a large complex system that is operating while you are working on it. They have had some luck recruiting people coming from the Navy who were onboard welders on ships and subs.</div>
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They never got certified as a welder or mechanic? Those things require education and certification...you dont just go out and do it.<br><br>
I took welding at a cmmunity college for fun and learned that its a good thing I went to the university and didnt try to become a welder...I suck at it!
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MnD</strong> <a href="/forum/post/1801568"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I know someone who makes around $130K a year at a coal fired power plant as a senior mechanic with a HS diploma. They start new mechanics at $70K and have a very difficult time finding qualified employees. You must be a welder and be able to think it terms of a large complex system that is operating while you are working on it. They have had some luck recruiting people coming from the Navy who were onboard welders on ships and subs.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
They never got certified as a welder or mechanic? Those things require education and certification...you dont just go out and do it.<br><br>
I took welding at a cmmunity college for fun and learned that its a good thing I went to the university and didnt try to become a welder...I suck at it!
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