[Grizzly]

Back into training again for a marathon or potential marathon in October. I am trying to ramp up to the mileage for the Pfitz 70/18week plan, but here we are with 14 weeks to go and I'm already thinking of scaling back the planned 18 miler this weekend.<br><br>
Tired, slow. No aches and pains... just tired and slow.<br><br>
I've yet to meet the planned mileage for the week. Maybe I just don't run this marathon.

 

[diablita]

Grizz, is there room in your training plan to give yourself a week off, make it an shorter, easier long run on the weekend? We all have bad, tired running weeks. I think that's where a lot of marathon training injuries come from.

 

[Buxtehude]

I notice you do doubles. Is that because it's the only way you can squeeze your miles into your schedule or does splitting up your runs serve another purpose?<br><br>
Sorry if you've explained this before.

 

[Grizzly]

I do doubles or did when the schedule called for it. But yesterday called for 14 miles and I was dead tired. Didn't want to get up at 4 am to get the miles in, and so I split the miles into two.<br><br>
It took me a while to get back after my marathon in early May. Then we were into landscaping and I pulled a muscle.<br><br>
I'm feeling okay, but just very slow. I haven't been anywhere near the mileage called for yet, although this week may be close. There is no way though that I can run an 18 miler on Sunday.

 

[sistergoldenhair]

Is there a way to ramp up a little more gradually and gently, and still "catch up" with the schedule enough to complete the program?<br><br>
Or maybe do this one with a lower-mileage/less rigorous program with a different goal in mind. How would the 18/55 work for you? I know that might feel like why bother when you are trying to BQ and want to give yourself the best shot.<br><br>
I'm feeling slow too these days, and probably putting too much pressure on myself to be in much better shape next month when I plan to go into training for a late fall race. I understand your questions all too well.

 

[roots]

Have you considered a different plan, perhaps to change the training stimulus?<br><br>
I've seen some runners do well when they slow down the easy and long runs and not worry about mileage.<br><br>
FWIW, take a look at the Benji Durden plan. It could be a good fit. Its 14 weeks in duration and instead of going by miles, it goes by time. My group used this plan for Boston this year and had some success.<br><br><a href="http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/triathlons/trainmarathon.html" target="_blank">http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/triathlo...nmarathon.html</a><br><br>
Best of luck this season.<br>
Lloyd

 

[toe jam on crusty feet]

We looked at the 70/18 but I am not ready for that kind of mileage. I still believe I can get faster without that many miles. I think my plan for my Oct marathon tops out at 55? It is definitely not more than that.<br>
I kinda feel the high mileage works for certain people but for others, lower mileage with more quality runs can be more effective. It's more about the plan that works for you and doesn't make you hate running.

 

[Grizzly]

While I know from past experience this year that I can do the mileage, I can't do it now.<br><br>
Heck I ran 8 at a reasonable clip and added three with a running buddy at slow pace today, and at the end of the second mile with him I felt like I'd have to walk. Moi?<br><br>
I've printed up Durden and I'm going to give it a try I think. Counter-intuitive, but why not...?

 

[jebba]

Grizz, why do you want to run this marathon? Do you really want to, or do you feel you ought to want to run it?<br><br>
Are you trying to BQ, PR, run a respectable time or have fun? Is the 70/18 plan what you need for your goal?<br><br>
I think you have it in you to hammer out a great marathon in October. On the other hand, it might be time to plan for a slower marathon that focusses more on having fun and being kind to your body/mind.<br><br>
But what do I know? I've never run a marathon.

 

[Grizzly]

Obviously I'd give my right leg to BQ. Wait a minute, let me think on that one for a sec... <img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif"><br><br>
I know that on a good day I have one in me. Can I ramp up enough to run one in October? I dunno.<br><br>
On the other hand, I want a GOOD marathon, one that I can feel a sense of accomplishment from start to finish. Vancouver was okay, great for 18 and then the cramps in my calf muscles. I want to run one controlled and in control for the whole race. If that's Toronto and it isn't a BQ, then so be it.<br><br>
What I don't want to do is run one for the sake of running it.<br><br>
I want to survive this summer and I want the training to be, if not fun, then not just work. Gotta live too, right? Looks like Durden could be 40-50 mpw, and I know I can do that... will it get me to BQ, I don't know. But it looks like I can survive the summer with it.

 

[jebba]

Sounds like you've answered your question then. I think you've hit a good solution.

 

[toe jam on crusty feet]

so, I am desperately wanting to BQ at Marine Corp in Oct..... but if it is going to be the most miserable 3:40 of my life, then I don't think the BQ will outweigh that. Yes, I like a challenge but I also never want to lose sight that running is my release and my joy. If that means another year till I BQ, then so be it.<br><br>
Grizzly- I think you should go with it if you feel like running for fun would be great! After the Goofy, I was kinda burnt, but i did the Minnie 15K with my mom, which was super slow for me. It was truly the most fun race I have EVER run. I helped her accomplish a big goal, spent time with her, and felt great at the end!

 

[roots]

Hey Grizzly,<br><br>
It sounds like you're taking the plunge to change it up. Right on. If you'd like some more testimonial or observations from working with this plan, let me know. Five of us used Durden this winter; four for Boston, and myself for the Bull Run 50 Mile.<br><br>
FYI, I averaged 51 mpw for the season (minus the last week for taper), on 6 runs per week. That number is inflated a bit since I turned a couple of the long runs into 50km training runs (for my ultra.) Your average will probably be a bit lower. The whole point of this plan is NOT worry about the miles. Run the time.<br><br>
You are right. Running <i>by time</i> <b>is</b> conterintuitve to other programs, and it probably will feel that way throughout. My running group members who followed Durden all said that they all felt "not ready" when it came to race day.<br><br>
Though Boston was a less-than-ideal weather day to race, three out of the four Durden runners ran solid races and within 2 minutes of their PR. Two of these four, along with myself, returned 3 weeks after Boston with all three of us PR'ing at the Flying Pig.<br><br>
I agree with the author that a benefit of running by <i>time</i> is that it promotes "not" racing the easy or long pace runs. The slower pace running promotes the conservation of carbs as a fuel and more burning of fat--all good stuff for racing the marathon distance.<br><br>
The other conter-intuitive point to this plan is the abscence of Marathon-pace runs. There are none. Durden suggests running the marathon race by feel and not by some pre-determined pace for a predetermined finish time. And I think thats somewhat good.<br><br>
Also, I positively agree with your attitude for this season. If you're gonna do it, then its going to be fun. I'm personally looking forward to watching you arrive at the starting line in good health. You were not afforded that in last season and that alone is worth a few minutes off the clock.<br><br>
Your Pfitzinger training is not lost on you and I'm sure you'll find way to incorporate the good qualities that it has instilled in you as a runner.<br>
If the lower volume of this season does not work out to your liking, I know you will take that knowledge and apply it to the next one. I believe you've been around long enough to understand that the marathon game is sometimes cruel and race day does not always offer ideal conditions to run a PR.<br><br>
Best of luck on this season and I look forward to watching you arrive at the starting line in good shape.<br>
~roots

 

[tigger]

Well you already know that I'm one of your greatest believers, but are you? Sometimes I sense that you don't have confidence in your ability. You are a good runner and you will qualify for Boston. I am sure of that.<br><br>
We all go through "dead" periods after a hard race. It took me almost two months to break out of my funk after Vancouver. You ran a longer race, and so it is probably taking you longer to recover. Remember JC after his Toronto marathon? He has never returned to that level since then.<br><br>
My suggestion is to shorten up your runs for a couple of weeks and try to find the point where you finish a run feeling fatigued, but refreshed at the same time. If that means no run, then don't run. When you do, start your runs very slowly and let the pace be what it will be. Once a week to a threshold run for 20 to 30 minutes. After a couple of weeks I'm pretty sure you'll feel better.

 

[fox-runr]

geesh Griz. Honestly, i don't see a problem.<br><br>
Listen to Tigger. You are going to be just fine. You sound a little fatigued, and you're stressing out doesn't help. relax. Two weeks of easy running isn't not going to hamper your training, nor should you change any plans.<br><br>
sue