Max HR & You!

hup · Dec 29, 2007

Do you know yours? 
If so, what is it? 
How did you determine it? 
Did you go with a formula? 
Did you do some sort of running test? 
Do you use it in your training? 
I'm just curious .... no motive here <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> 
220 - age = (173) is lower than my actual measured. 
I consistently can get it to 188, although I spiked a 196 at the very end of a recent half marathon. That's the only time I've been that high so I'm thinking it was a bad reading. I use 190 to determine training zones. I'm not a "live by and die by" HR trainer, but I like going back post workout/race and seeing just what was happening and when. 
Any HR stories or anecdotes to share?

ksrunr · Dec 29, 2007

Hi Hup. 
I think my mhr is about 172. I'm a fat old man and that's about as high as I've seen without spikes. I never pay attention to spikes as they are bad readings or power wire interference or some such thing. I usually find that after a race my hr has stayed 155-157. Not sure if that is my comfort zone and afraid to push it or not? 
on the 50+ thread several months ago they discussed ways to determine max hr. Go to a local track and do a 2 mile warm up, stretch, etc just like you were going to race. Then run a 800 M race. Jog 1 min and then run a 400 all out. Highest reading on the 400 should be close to max. I haven't tried it yet.

Labduck · Dec 29, 2007

Howdy hup! Are you enjoying your time-off after the Christmas delivery madness? 
I use 195 as my MHR. This number comes from 800m interval training where I routinely hit 190 or more. I've hit 200 and higher several times, but I believe they were transient spikes.

hup · Dec 29, 2007

Hi ks - I determined mine by running a 3 ish mile warmup then running up a long (400 meters?) hill 4 times. I hit max 188 on the 2nd and 3rd repeat then just couldn't get it there on the 4th .... tired legs. Immediately after that the dry heaves started <img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif"> 
I've hit 186 ish at the end of several races. Surprisingly, it's been at the end of two different halfs (I don't race many shorter races anymore .... must be that dry heave factor <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif">) 
Thanks for weighing in!

hup · Dec 29, 2007

Doing fine now, thanks for asking Lab. This was peak season #25 for me at UPS .... not many surprises that I haven't dealt with before <img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif"> 
Hope that you are getting to recover from your ailment so that you can put that 195 max into use <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> 
Do you use HR in your training plans?

Labduck · Dec 29, 2007

No, I've always used pace training based on data from the McMillan calculator. I'll collect a run's heart rate data, file it away, and usually not look at again! 
The exception has been when I x-trained. In order to get the x-train activity to replicate a running one, I'll monitor my HR and try to get it to correspond to a type of run (i.e., easy, interval, etc.).

RunsTheBitterroot · Dec 29, 2007

Hi Hup, great topic. This is such an individual thing to find what seems to work best. This is what I follow: 
I use the Kavoren Formula where THR=RHR+(MHR-RHR)*%intensity 
THR=Target Heartrate 
RHR=Resting Heartrate 
MHR=Maximum Heartrate 
I have an old book "The Heart Rate Monitor Book" by Sally Edwards that I got with my first polar hr monitor and is the best on this subject that I have seen. Lots of detail and other ways of calculating the target hr zones. 
The way I determined my maximum hr can be found on page 48 of Sally's book. There are 5 ways of doing this, and the one that I chose to do was as follows: 3. Hill Repeat Test: Locate a 90 second hill, that is relatively steep hill that takes you about 90 seconds to run up. After you warm up, run four times as hard as you can, then run or jog down the hill to recover to your pre-test heart rate. The Max HR is usually the highest heart rate registered toward the end of this period. 
I did this test several years ago a few times and determined at the time that my Maximum Heartrate was 196. According to recent test my Maximum heartrate now is 191. 
There is other information in the book that tells how to get maximum heartrate for other activities such as swimming and cycling which would be different than running. 
Other interesting topics in the book is about things that can effect the heartrate, such as altitude and heat. Heartrate drift is also covered in detail. Very good info on each training zone. 
I have tried using the age graded 220-age is way to low for some and could very well be way to high for others regardless of how fast they are. My max hr would be according to this formula would be 160. According to this my easy run at 65% would be 104. I don't even start to break out in a sweat in warm weather until my hr is about 136. This is how I determined that the Kavoren formula was probably correct. If I just begin to break out in a sweat at 70 degrees and can easily talk, I am at about 65%, yielding a number of about 136. 
Determining Minimum Hr: I used sally's book for this too which can be found on page 50: Morning Resting HR: Immediately after awakening and before you get out of be, take your heart rate using you heart rate monitor or by counting the beats for 15 seconds and multiplying by . I prefer to simply sleep with my heart rate monitor on and awake in the morning and read it first thing. be warned, if your bladder is full in the morning, you didn't sleep well, or your feeling stressed, you might have a slightly elevated resting HR. 
Since I have gotten a forerunner I can record my hr during a run, stay within my zone and compare paces for that zone and course to see how I am doing. I have used a heartrate monitor since about 6 months after I began running and for me it is a useful tool. 
Larry

TheProFromDover · Dec 30, 2007

If so, what is it? 200bpm 
How did you determine it? steep hill repeats 8x 
Did you go with a formula? no 220-age is 95% probability that you within 20% of that number. Duh. 
Did you do some sort of running test? Hill repeats. 
Do you use it in your training? I use it to calculate my easy/tempo/and race HR based on Heart Rate Reserve not % of max. 
I say you cannot use a HRM max reading. Everyone spikes. You need to be maxed out and looking at the same number for a few seconds minimum.

mcsolar99 · Dec 30, 2007

Do you know yours? 
in theory If so, what is it? 
178 How did you determine it? 
three ways agree... but have never seen it racing or in workouts Did you go with a formula? 
220 - age = 177 Did you do some sort of running test? 
-- one idea is that people race 10ks at 90% of their max: my median 10k heart rate = 178 x 90% 
-- polar s625x runs a test that looks at the timing between beats, and that came up with a max of 178 
-- hardest workout: 2x800m all out. first one in 2:19 i hit 172bpm, second one in 2:21 i only hit 171bpm 
-- hardest race 5k: in the last 100m of a 5k i hit 172bpm Do you use it in your training? 
only on recovery days when i try to keep it below 130bpm = 73% max Anecdote: 
i train with a 50y/o who has a max near 190, he races 5ks and marathons both at 188bpm. the things i thought i knew about heart rate and racing and workouts don't seem to apply to this guy.

Dennis · Dec 30, 2007

Interesting topic. The topic interests me because I would like to pay more attention to the quality of my running in 2008, although I dont want to obsess over it. The lastest issue of Runner's World got me thinking about this as well. I dont have a heart rate monitor, I have to do it the old fasioned way - take my pulse for 15 seconds and multiply by 4. 
I posted last night in the daily thread that I was testing different paces and measuring my heart rate. My last test was at the tail end of the 6th mile, I ramped up the treadmill to a 4.0 incline and ran harder then 5K pace for a half mile, and still only got my heart rate up to 161. According to most of the standard calulators, I should be at 179. 
Using those same standard calculators, my heart rate for recovery runs, pacing runs and tempo runs are nearly perfectly lined up where they should be for a max heart rate of 179. But I have never tested my heart rate during intervals of 800's or 1200's. And have never really max'd out my heart. I wish we had a hill around here, but there are some hills about an hour away from here I could try on. 
Now I do question the effect on any medication taken. I've been on medications for 15 years which my Doctor tells me will reduce my heart rate and lower my blood pressure. I also took a stress test recently and had to reach 155 bpm, After the test and the Cardiologist indicated he was surprised it took the time & effort it did to get to 155. He added that I had one of the higher exercise tolerences he's seen in a long time. So I wonder if the meds I take can reduce my max rate by say 10 beats???

CassadAAmius · Dec 30, 2007

Mine is 190, measured while furiously kicking in a one-mile race. I averaged 188 for the last 400m so I know it wasn't a spike or bad reading. 
220 - age predicts 177. I read somewhere that people who have participated in endurance sports for most of their lives can maintain a higher max HR as they age. I think even in the general population that formula has a wide variance. 
I've learned from experience that I can race a 5k at an AHR of ~183, a 10k at ~177, a HM at ~172, and a M at ~168. I try to hit these HR zones when doing the appropriately targeted workouts, and I try to keep the recovery days below 140. 
ks, you crack me up. Give me some of your fat old speed any day.

millbot · Dec 30, 2007

Who knew heart rates could be so interesting? 
I settled on my maximum (194) by doing a test similar to what ksrunr describes. I nearly passed out. 
Like mc, I use my HRM mostly to ensure that easy days stay easy. But I also like to review the data after a race or an interval workout. 
Have you ever wondered what the guts of a HRM look like? I have a non-functional one that I plan to cut open. I'll post pictures if anyone is interested.

JJJessee · Dec 30, 2007

My age would suggest 178, 
but I ran a hilly 5k in Aug and it hit 189. 
I thought maybe a spike, but the HR graph showed a slow stable rise to that number. 
So I use that as a guide, mainly for long LR and Recovery. 
jjj

WillRunForBeer · Dec 30, 2007

I think mine is about 195-200 based on the measurements in this 5K. There's some spikiness between mile 2.4 and 2.7, but when I started my final kick after 2.7 it seemed to get steady around that max until it dropped off at the final downhill. <img alt="" src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2356/2146737045_dfc766633d_o.jpg" style="border:0px solid;">

ksrunr · Dec 30, 2007

Millbot - I'd like to see the pics

Cashmason · Dec 30, 2007

192 for me. Formula 220- your age would be 170. 192 keeps coming up at the end my short races or in the latter stages of marathons where the temperatures are over 90 degrees

PJH · Dec 30, 2007

I was tested a couple of years ago in a lab ... my MHR is 177. 
The formula from RW is the most accurate for me .... 205 - (.5 x your age) ... translates to 176.5 for me. (If you are under 40, you would use 208 - (.7 x your age) ) 
The 220 - age formula would have me at 163 which doesn't seem to make much sense. 
I have seen 177 only once during a race and then only briefly. I have been in the low 170's a couple of times. Maybe I'm not working hard enough. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> 
Anecdote: when racing, I find my HR is at least 10 bpm higher than under normal running conditions. The excitement of the day, I guess. 
PJ

tigger · Dec 30, 2007

Hup! Good to see all the Christmas parcels are finally delivered! 
My MHR is 184, measured several years ago on a TM set at 2% where I was trying to go as far as I could at 5k PR pace. It was a contest to support someone who used to run 80 miles per week on a TM at that grade. She had terminal cancer and eventually passed from it, but she ran 80 mpw on that treadmill til within several weeks of her death. 
By formula my Max is 220 minus 57. So my actual observed max is a lot higher. I use it determine rough training zones, using simple percent of max, and which are as follows.... 
Up to 140 - easy or recovery zone 
up to 150 - steady aerobic running 
up to 160 - threshold and cv zone 
up to 180 - intervals 
Those zones match fairly well with my recommended pace based on Daniels' VDOT tables. 
I was tested on a TM for fitness last spring. The test determined a MHR of 173 but I knew it was not accurate. They started the test at 2.5 mph and at 12% grade, running it there for (I think) 3 min. Then bumping it up 2% and 0.4 mph. I made it to 16% grade but had to hang on for a second at that slope, so they terminated the test. I guess they thought an old gump like me shouldn't be pushing so hard!! The lab also estimated VO2 max but I don't recall what it was and I don't have the results in front of me right now. I think it was in the 50's.

hup · Dec 30, 2007

Interesting discussion, fellas ..... why have no Boomer Goddesses checked in though? Story of my life <img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif"> Dennis - have you Googled your meds to see if you can find out more about side effects? tigger - I can just hear those techs saying "this old guy is going to fall off of this thing!" while scrambling to shut it off <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> Cash - I hear you about the heat. My HR soars when I'm racing in warmer temps. WRFB Lou - have you approached that number again before or since? jjj - checking the graph is the acid test. I just looked back at the data for when I hit 196. It looks like a pretty gradual climb as well. I wonder if I do have a higher max than I think I have. <img alt="confused.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/confused.gif"> 
Thanks for the discourse, gang. Feel free to keep it going. 
hup

Caddisfli · Dec 30, 2007

Nice Thread! As a fairly new user of a Polar HRM I appreciate the input. My watch, Like MC's will calculate my HR based on age or by running a test. I have not run the test yet. I have spent the last two months correlating various paces to HR's based on my current fitness level. These correlations seem amazingly consistent to the point where I know I am going sub 8 at 150 and sub 7 at 160 BPM. As I start to build base more this winter I will start looking at training zones. 
One method not mentioned here yet but shared by MC a while back was to take your 5K HR and multiply by 1.11 ( did I get this right MC?). 
thanks for the lessons folks, 
cfli

Max HR & You!

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