Maniac Monday - Masters running and workouts

breger1 · Oct 18, 2010

The Boston Marathon registration has opened. If you're going to register do it now. This year will fill up before the end of the month I predict. Certainly before NYC.
 
I am qualified for Boston 2011, but I will not be going. I'd really like to let someone else go for the first time like I was able to experience it this past April. There is a good friend in my town who just qualified yesterday at Toronto with a 3:35 and change; qualified with mere seconds to spare much like I did last year. I'm going to pretend I'm giving him my spot! (I'm going to tell him that too!)
 
Thanks for the good wishes on my two Marathons in two weeks. Sorry to be rather secretive on this last week. But I didn't want to toot the horn so to speak. Maniac status is really silly but for some reason I wanted to check it off my Bucket List. When I felt so good after TCM I knew this was the perfect chance to get it done. I'm not going to become a Maniac in the sense of running them all the time like many do. I just find Marathons to be incredibly difficult still to finish off strongly. Even running them slowly on purpose like I did yesterday (a PW of 4:12:57 by the way) - they are still tough.
 
This one did give me a real sense of where my weaknesses lie. It's not the distance. I'm in great shape conditioning wise. Once again the legs feel great afterward and I can tell I'll recover from this very quickly. But I need to fashion a training plan that will focus and enable me to run the last 10K the right way. I think I've only run the last 10K well in 2 of my 8 marathons. I know I have a PR marathon in me still, but the last 10K is going to have to be there for me to do it. That will be my 2011 Goal.
 
Bill

Spareribs · Oct 18, 2010

Well, that is a worthy goal Bill. Stay with it.
 
2.2 miles on the dirt and two days in a row I felt nothing in my knee, so I am guessing this is just residual soreness from TCM. Thanks to those who expressed concern. I am confident it will be okay. Spareribs

OrangeMat · Oct 18, 2010

Congrats Byll on accomplishing your bucket list goal! Though I do have a question about your plan: what is the wrong way, and what is the right way to run the final 10k of a marathon? I don't mean to be obnoxious by asking, I just really don't know. I suppose I do have some long term goal of someday running a marathon as well, which is why I find all this strategic and training information quite interesting. I guess once I know everything, then I'll do the race. <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif" title="">
 
5.8 miles in the park today, each mile faster than the last. Splits were 9:39, 9:37, 9:32, 9:23, 9:02, 8:53. I had planned on doing 6, but for some reason just didn't feel like finishing the last .2 (I had misjudged the turnaround point and was already at my car). Oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with the run-fail.
 
Good news on the knee, Ribs. Onward and upward!

Ileneforward · Oct 18, 2010

Congrats on becoming a maniac, Byll!

breger1 · Oct 18, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by OrangeMat <a href="/forum/thread/70711/maniac-monday-masters-running-and-workouts#post_1954983"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I do have a question about your plan: what is the wrong way, and what is the right way to run the final 10k of a marathon? I don't mean to be obnoxious by asking, I just really don't know. I suppose I do have some long term goal of someday running a marathon as well, which is why I final all this strategic and training information quite interesting. I guess once I know everything, then I'll do the race. <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif" title="">
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OM, it is not obnoxious to ask a question. Not at all.
 
I think any marathoner will tell you the last 10K is what makes the race. You may have heard the expression the first 20 miles is the 1st half of a marathon and the last 10K is the 2nd half. It's fairly true.
 
What makes the marathon different from other races, even the half marathon, is the element of Glycogen depletion (the muscle fuel if you will). The body can typically store enough Glycogen to get you through 20 miles or so. You can help that by eating properly before and during the race. Less miles if you go out too fast, more if you go out easy. You go out too fast too soon and you will have a tough last 10K. This is a reason why proper raceday nutrition is so important. Many of us have bonked by neglecting the carbs, etc. during the race.
 
26.2 miles is a long way. And it is a Big Puzzle - a part of the Allure for me. You must respect the distance. It is Great fun to be passing dozens of people in the last 10K because you've run the race correctly up to that point and have something left in the tank. It's not so much fun to limp home though truly there is nothing wrong with that either. Anyone who runs 26.2, no matter how they get there, is a winner.
 
For the Goal I mentioned, I am going to work on my Mental game. I give in to the walk demons too easily when I really don't need to. I can suffer through and run the whole way. It is just less painful to walk some. I am going to do many Fast Finish LR's and keep up the Tempos. And I think I need to Race a lot more at every distance to be Race-ready. That's where my work needs to be.
 
Bill

Opie · Oct 18, 2010

Bill, that is a great post about how to slay the marathon beast! And what's really silly about the Asylum is bragging rights like me for having a low number.
 
Yoga at lunch and I'll run 6 after work. (don't listen, Erika) Hopefully it'll still be warm so I can do some more heat acclimatization.

mcsolar99 · Oct 18, 2010

congrats breger1, you maniac.
 
10mi ez recovery for me today.
 
you run a marathon with your brain. literally. the problem i've had is my brain has run out of fuel; our brains and central nervous systems can only get energy from blood or liver glycogen. if your brain runs out of energy, you can't produce the impulses to fire your muscles, no matter how well-conditioned your muscles may be. your brain slows down, the frequency of nerve impulses to your leg muscles slows down, and you walk; demons or not. without enough fuel to produce the required electricity, your brain can't synchronize the complicated muscle firing patterns needed to run. our bodies can metabolize fat stores to produce glycogen to feed our brains, but that process is slow, and the rate of glycogen production from body fat will only produce enough electricity to coordinate walking, not running. digestion of carbs is the quickest way to keep your brain's fuel tank full.
 
the right way to run the last 10k is to arrive there with enough liver or blood glycogen to keep hammering at your race pace to the finish line. for me that means digesting 200 cals of gels each of the previous 2 hours of racing, and having a small breakfast 2 hours before the gun to top off my liver glycogen stores from the previous night of sleep.

tomwhite · Oct 18, 2010

YAY Burger////////
 
 
 
 
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 ...gee, I hope OM doesn't become Obnoxius later in the Thread......
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Opie · Oct 18, 2010

mcsolar, another excellent post.
 
Paul, I hope you are signed up already for Boston because as you know, it fills up very quickly.

gobi · Oct 18, 2010

ah the excitement of Boston, plan to do Boston when MrsG is ready for another marathon. She is not in a hurry.
 
Congrats Bill, in regards the last 10km, fuelling is where my gut tells me your weakness lies. Just my view.
 
I have rolled back the years these last 2 day(I know I always seem to be training). Next month I turn 40(finally a real master) and to see my birthday in I am running a marathon the week before and then another one a week later. With this in mind I thought it was time to be a runner again so the last 2 days have seen me do the following
 
Run 18.5 miles @ 7.09 pace then ride for 75 mins
Run 10.25 miles @ 7.40 pace then ride for 30 mins
 
Finished off this evening with 4 miles of interval work with my squad.
 
First time I have done back to back runs over 10 miles since April 09 and it was January before that, expecting this week to see me go over 60 miles for the first time since I started training again after the injuries.
 
Feels good :¬)

OrangeMat · Oct 18, 2010

Byll, the reason I said my question might be obnoxious is that I would expect most people to know the wrong way to do something, because being faced with failure would tell them that. Knowing the right way isn't as much of a no-brainer. But since I have no personal experience with either in this case, I wanted to ask and learn.
 
Thanks for your answer, and yours mc as well. I've only run 20 miles once so far, and honestly what I found to be the hardest part was that since I had (at the last minute) decided to extend my predetermined 18-mile route for two more miles, I was at a loss as to actually where to run those two additional miles. It was a totally mental obstacle that I was faced with, the indecision of my route. Self-doubt entered the picture and I found myself not wanting to try anymore, and felt prematurely defeated. It was all I could do to not let that demon stop me completely. Honestly, my body felt fine.
 
But that's neither here nor there.
 
mc, I totally understand what you mean, because I've experienced that: you just get too stupid to know how to run anymore. Hmm, I wonder if that's why I tripped yesterday. I took a GU at 9 miles, but maybe that was too late for me? That was an hour and a half into the run. Yeah, most likely too long without fuel. Hmm, good to know.
 
gobi you are a machine! And now with VRAA being over? Eh, you'll get yours once you're 40, I'm sure.... <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/lol.gif" title="">

Spareribs · Oct 18, 2010

Boston is now officially closed for 2011. Spareribs

evanflein · Oct 18, 2010

Wow... what was that, a 7 hour window? Getting ridiculous, I tell ya. I keep saying I'll run Boston again in 2012, but now I'm not so sure. Seems hardly worth the hassle when there are so many wonderful marathons out there. Still... I do love that course!
 
I think some fueling would've helped my run yesterday. It was warmer than I was expecting (forecast had been for mid-20's, but it was 40° when I finished!) so I did overheat and needed a drink at mile 7 when I stopped at my folks' house to drop off my top layer and use the facilities. Always risky to stop at mom & dad's because they love to talk and it's hard to pull away. I did it yesterday in record time by promising to return later, and I did.
 
Opie, with the new MM's being added in the 2,000's now, even my number feels "small" and special! I always think I'd like to accumulate more stars, but not willing to put in the travel $$ to do so.
 
Today's looking like a rest day. Worked thru lunch and have plans tonight around the house. The weekend was way too short and so much stuff got neglected.

hally · Oct 18, 2010

Congrats again Beerger1! gLAD you got that off your list. You will figure it out, I am sure <img alt="smile.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies//smile.gif">

mcsolar99 · Oct 19, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Spareribs <a href="/forum/thread/70711/maniac-monday-masters-running-and-workouts#post_1955093"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> Boston is now officially closed for 2011. Spareribs
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 that's amazing! i think it says that boston is now officially another big city marathon. tougher time standards would bring it back to that smaller more competitive type of race; but now that they've seen the money a huge crowd can bring (and if they can handle the logistics), i don't think there's any way they'll go back.

GGPRunner · Oct 19, 2010

Hello all!
 
Congrats on the Maniac status, Byll!! I'm glad you were able to get that one in.
Congrats also to those who made the Boston list. 7 hrs! Wow! 
 
Rehab is coming along for me. I've been running on the Alter G treadmill, and this week I'm up to 90% of my body wt. Next week... outdoors! Yay!

Opie · Oct 19, 2010

It was cool & rainy outside, so I did my heat acclimatization 6 mi. on the Y treadmill. Yes, I'm officially crazy.

Labduck · Oct 19, 2010

Hi GGP! <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wave.gif" style="width:25px;height:15px;" title=""> I'm glad your rehab is coming along well.
 
5 recovery miles for me at 7:58/mi with the Niketown Running Club. Main conversation point this evening was how easy it is to BQ now, and how it's ruining the Boston Marathon. I of course was mum on the subject. But one guy said it was tougher to qualify for New York than Boston. Is that true? (I know I could look it up if I really cared that much, but I guess I don't...<img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/cool.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;" title="">)

Opie · Oct 19, 2010

He's talking about the automatic entry for NYC to avoid the lottery.

Paul · Oct 19, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Opie <a href="/forum/thread/70711/maniac-monday-masters-running-and-workouts#post_1955068"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a> 
Paul, I hope you are signed up already for Boston because as you know, it fills up very quickly.
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I'm in. I was at the computer this morning waiting for the registration to open. It took 12 tries before I was successful.

Maniac Monday - Masters running and workouts

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