LT by me.

Tri_coach06 · Feb 21, 2008

Not all of the info is EXACT. I know that, but I'm trying yto make LT easier to understand 
What do the numbers mean? Simply they are the zones at which your body can work either in active rest, completely aerobic, near anaerobic and anaerobic. 
I know that's not helpful. A little biology lesson.... 
The body uses ATP as fuel. The body makes ATP by breaking down glucose. If you work WITH enough oxygen (Aerobic), the body can make a lot of ATP with a single glucose. If you work WITHOUT enough oxygen (Anaerobic) the body is limited as to how many ATP it can make with a single glucose molecule. 
With me so far? 
OK, a little deeper. Lactate threshold, What is it. Glucose is broken down into two main parts, pyruvate and lactate. This process is called glycolisis and it makes a couple ATP. If you are aerobic, the body uses those two "cleaved" halves to make more ATP (A lot more). If your anaerobic, then the body cannot make more ATP from the cleaved halves and to get your energy you need to continue to use glucose. 
Still here? 
Now you have 2 molecules from your glucose. pyruvate and lactate. The "Lactate" stays in the muscle (Causing that pain you feel) and the pyruvate is cleared out by the kidneys. The point (Measured in HR or by pricking the finger and watching for an increase in the blood) at which your muscles cannot clear the lactate is the LT or lactate threshold. 
The zones simply allow the athlete to work in in a zone that will allow them to use all the available energy from a single glucose, or force them to use a lot of glucose tomake very little energy. The closer you get to your LT, the less efficiant the body becomes in making ATP and it has less ability to clear the lactate. the term threshold is where the body makes more than it can clear. 
zone 1. Very efficient. the body can use all available energy ATP created by the glucose 
zone 2. The body is still very efficient. It's burning more energy uNits, but still able to make enough witht he glucose and is able to clear all the lactate that is not used in crreating energy. Not much at this HR or zone. In this zone, the body is able to use other sources of fuel such as fats and protiens to ake energy (ATP) 
zone 3 The body uses glucose as it's primary fuel source, but also uses fatty acids and other sources. the body is able to clear almost all the lactate. 
zone 4 The zone is above the LT of the athlete and the athletes body cannot clear the lactate as fast as it is being created. The athlete has a very limited amount of time they can spend in this zone. 
So what does all this wonderful info mean to you? 
Simply put we want to push your LT UP. The longer you can stay at a higher HR, the faster you are. 
This has nothing to do with max HR or VO2 max. The 3 are mutually exclusive of the others. not to say if you have a very hight VO2 max that you won't have a very high LT. Obviously if you can get more oxygen to the muscles, the more glucose you can use. <img alt="" src="http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p50/imfl03/LT.jpg" style="border:0px solid;">

neil donnelly · Feb 21, 2008

Excellent explination Sheldon 
Now I just have to increase my LT 
Neil

caffeinated · Feb 21, 2008

Cool! Thanks! 
Can you talk about determining one's lactate threshold? In terms of HR, I mean.

Tri_coach06 · Feb 21, 2008

I use a simple test the athlete takes on the trainer. It's a step test where the athlete increases the speed by incriments every minute and a half. I then plot the numbers and look for a "threshold curve". this is usually the point at which the athletes ventallary (sp) threshold is broken. (The point where the athlete goes from a rhythmical breathing pattern to panting.) 
The optimal test would of course be the finger prick method where actual lactate is measured. I'm not sure of the number, but an increase of lactate of so much is where the LT is set. 
Depending on your coach or what book you read the zones change a bit. I use <78%, 78-90%, 90-100% and over 100. 
Did that answer your question? 
CS

Stitcher · Feb 21, 2008

The folks that did my test said that the LT is when there's a JUMP in the lactate measure in the blood. 
Mine went from something like 2.8 or 9.....to 3.8 (I think). Prior to that, the increases were much smaller. 
No official results yet....but I'm hoping they'll come back soon.

Alaska Mike · Feb 21, 2008

Let's muddy the water a bit. An article was posted to our tri club mailing list talking about some new research that discredits the theory that lactic acid build-up causes muscle fatigue. I looked around and found the following article: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/health/research/12musc.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/he...ch/12musc.html</a> 
Now, I don't believe every article I read and I'd prefer to see some of the more well known training experts comment on what exactly this means for some of the training theories, but it is food for thought. 
Mike

caffeinated · Feb 21, 2008

Yes. I do the math on these percentages based on my max HR, correct? h

Tithers · Feb 21, 2008

Hey Sheldawg. My HR for my TT was 183 average and 186 for a high. You told me to report...since my LT for bike is 170, does my LT go 180 for run..."theoretically speaking?"

Stitcher · Feb 21, 2008

Dunno what Sheldawg will say yet.... 
but, the people who did my test said that it's common to have a higher HR for the LT on the run, than on the bike. They tried to explain why to me.... 
but eventually all I heard was "bla bla bla...." I needed food!

Tri_coach06 · Feb 21, 2008

LT is NOT based on Max HR. The 2 are mutually exclusive. One tests maximim abilty of the heart and the other tests thresholds of muscle fatigue based on the build up of lactate. 
CS

Tithers · Feb 21, 2008

I don't really pay attention to HR on the run...just seein' what Sheldawg will say.

Stitcher · Feb 21, 2008

Before I got my gadget...HR was all I had to make any judgements on while running. 
Now....I'm set up good and proper. 
I can do pace or time or HR.... 
Oh GAWD...... 
No wonder people look at me funny........ 
I'm a geek!

Tri_coach06 · Feb 21, 2008

All I can say is Bull Sheet. 
Drugs called calcium channel blockers have been in use for many years yet they make no mention of these drugs in the tests. They also tested athletes that were sitting VS athletes that were working out, and they make no mention of how hard they were working out. To many holes, not enough info. 
Additionally, heart muscle and skeletal muscle are very different indeed. Skeletal muscle CAN repair iteslf where heart muscle CANNOT. 
If he creates drug that can make an athlete workout 20% longer, he's gonna be a very rich man. 
CS

Tri_coach06 · Feb 21, 2008

HR will indeed be higher on the run and lower on the swim. More muscles are used in running and less in swimming. 
We don't use HR on the run. Why, simple, to many variables. Heat, hydration, nutrition, fatigue and many other factors all play a part in running HR. They play a part in cycling too, but it's much easier to control in cycling. This is not an exact science. 
Wattage would be a much better indicator on the bike, but even that has variables attached. LT zone training is reliable enough to give an athlete that trains with it an edge over those that don't. That's why we ALL own a HRM. right? 
CS

Stitcher · Feb 21, 2008

Welllll..... 
I own my HRM because it satisfies my need for "all things that run on batteries" (get your head out of the gutter, Tithers!!). It fulfills my geek quotient. 
If I can get a training benefit out of it, too.........BONUS!

pcsronbo · Feb 22, 2008

Or one that CLAIMS he can make an athelete workout 20% and is backed by a fancy medical report which was distributed in the news. 
I'm not saying the report is accurate, or not. I lack the knowledge to help poke holes in it. What I expect is probably true is that there are multiple variables and they might be on the right track finding out about how certain variables interact.

3chilipeppers · Feb 22, 2008

So, what are those percentages of? Are they % of LT? I have all my HR zones for the 3 disciplines (roughly -- using Karvonen), and that's 5 zones. Do those relate AT ALL to LT? I don't know my VO2 max, so that isn't even relevant to me right now, but LT could be really useful. I thought I knew my LT based on HR zones, but I guess I really don't know. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> 
(This was really helpful, by the way -- I never truly understood the whole lactate thing except you don't want it and can't get rid of it as fast as your HR rises)

LT by me.

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