Lets talk gang!

sierra · Apr 21, 2007

Its been a bit of a rough week around here this week. 
As we have all seen, some things have happened that needed to be addressed with some people. (and that has been done) 
I believe its important for us all to support each other, and to do that effectively, we need to be on the same page in dealing with these kinds of issues. 
So, your thoughts? 
Hopefully Rich will jump in with his thoughts too, since he is our fearless leader! <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> 
Lets talk gang! 
Carla

sierra · Apr 21, 2007

Oh, and let me share a bit about a brief conversation I had with Rich this week. This is what I understood him to tell me regarding his thoughts. 
He said that if something starts to get personal, to intervene, delete whatever the personal comment was (name calling etc) and then post as a mod to get back to the issues, and not to get personal. 
He suggested two warnings, at the second one, (handled the same way, to state that the thread will be locked if it gets personal again) After it happens again, then lock it down. 
At the same time, to PM the offending person about their choice of behavior and let them know that we encourage lively discussion and even disagreements, but to discuss issues, and not get personal. 
In handling it this way, the community sees the correction and direction from the mods, but the personal communication with the person involved is done via pm. 
At least thats the way I understood him. It was a hurried and hectic conversation though, so I could be totally wrong about this. 
Rich if you can jump in and clarify this that would be great! I dont want to misspeak for you. 
So, what do the rest of you think??? Its all still up for discussion.

diablita · Apr 21, 2007

Hi sierra, 
It has been a busy week, especially for the two of you moderating the PRT. 
I think that's a perfect approach and appreciate the guidance as we get busier. Hopefully we won't have to use the technique often (and really, how often do people get out of control in the Med Tent, after all?) but it sounds very much in keeping with the spirit of the site. If the members hardly ever hear from us (publicly) as moderators, then things are going great. 
And btw, kudos to you and Robert for the handling of the wanttorun100 vs. Wilson post the other day. Minus the concept of two warnings, following much the same practice you've outlined not only cooled things down immediately, it had Wilson and WTR apologizing to each other a little while later on the board.

sierra · Apr 21, 2007

I agree, the wtr vs wilson thing got a bit hairy. I have to give credit to Robert for handling most of that one. I was gone so he did all the hard stuff. 
I know that both he and I received lots of pm's from members about what was going on. I just responded to mine by telling the people that we were aware of the situation and were dealing with it. Also told them that if they had any further concerns, to let us know. I am sure that Robert did the same thing. 
It was nice to see the apology though, even though wilson has yet to pick up the pm I sent him about the issue and his behaviors. 
The clubhouse issue is a bit tougher. As Rich stated in his post, its fine to link to them, or even talk about things there as long as people dont slam the place. Thats whats NOT ok! I assume we would deal with that the same way. Delete the comment and ask people to stick to the issues.

srlopez · Apr 21, 2007

For heated discussions that turn into personal attacks, this is a fine process (theoretically... need to try it out and see). Aside from wilson and my buddy wtr, we really haven't had those thankfully. 
The process as stated probably works a lot better if the offending post(s) are noticed close to when they are posted. And unfortunately, we're not all here 24x7. 
BTW, WRT PMs (heh, sorry): 
PM has a lot of overheard when factoring in the need to also tell other mods and rich about what's going down. This is probably only an issue in PRT, but it is an issue. "Cost of doing business". 
Instead of also using PM to tell other mods/admins about what's going down, I would like to start doing that part via regular email, so I can utilize CC and reply-all. 
Sometimes I think there are other issues beyond obvious personal attacks. I'll list two, one I think I handled incorrectly, and one I stand behind: 
1. I posted in a thread that was about CH's DanaTrop. The intention was to catch stuff before it turned into a diss-the-clubhouse thread. I should not have done that, or at least worded it better... but DanaTrop is one of the special case people. Starting a thread about him/her just feels like a blinking beacon for trouble. Anyway, I shouldn't have done that. 
2. The gomer one. My first post could have been stated better, but I stand behind my logic. 
But really? 
Neither one of these was really a big deal. I kind of feel like that it has been blown out of proportion. I've gotten a ton of PM traffic about it. 
And really? It's dealing with the PMs that gets to be kind of painful.

srlopez · Apr 21, 2007

So, from my standpoint, wtr is another special case person. 
He's had about 10 warnings for various things. And, I suspect, sierra and/or rich have talked to him about it more. 
The two warning thing is fine with me, although it would be easy for certain people to game that... knowing that they have two tries to get in an attack (which is why deleting them makes sense)... and also knowing that an easy way to get a thread locked is to pop it full of crummy stuff. 
But really? This ISNT the CH and I seriously, seriously doubt we have anyone here who is going to play that game.

diablita · Apr 21, 2007

perhaps for the repeat offenders, one warning is enough?

sierra · Apr 21, 2007

Well, the good news is that at the new site you can send a pm to up to 5 people at a time, so that will be much easier. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> 
I agree, some things have gotten blown way out of proportion. As far as the gomie thing, I understood exactly what you meant when I read it. I thought it was fairly obvious that you were directing people to post their congratulations where she would see them. 
As far as the Dana/Trop thing, I didnt even see that one. But yes, they are a topic that could go downhill fast. But, I guess we need to wait until it happens to deal with it. 
Rich is aware that we arent here all the time. His thought was to let it go and just deal with it when we find it. Its kinda the nature of the beast. People know that we do address things so if they see a problem, they WILL let us know, (right Robert?) and we can deal with it when ever we are here. Rich is not overly concerned with that. 
This is going to be a learning process for all of us, but I really do think with all the issues that have gone on this week, we have had positive results. Yes, Robert and I, (more him than me) have had the opportunity to reassure people of what we want and that we DO address issues of disrespect and abuse. Even if people do not agree with us, they will understand that WE DO CARE about what goes on here. I think THAT is a positive thing! 
Overall, I think it has been a great learning experience for all of us! I just hope it doesnt happen too often!

sierra · Apr 21, 2007

I would agree, if someone chooses to consistently do unacceptable things, yes, one warning is enough. 
But, if it comes to that, I need to know, (and will keep rich informed) In a case like that, where the person is just choosing to continually abuse the right to post here, that right can be adjusted until the person has a serious discussion with either myself or rich.

sierra · Apr 21, 2007

I agree, I dont see that happening, and if it does, well, they will find out quickly that that kind of thing just doesnt fly here.

merigayle · Apr 21, 2007

I missed the Trop/Dana thing. And i guess i missed the Gomer thing. I did however see the WTR thing. I saw it the minute it went up. Is there a way with the new board that, even if i am not a mod in that forum that i could delete it in an "emergency?" A special way that one of us could do it just in case no one else was around?

satfix · Apr 21, 2007

Hey Guys! 
Thanks for starting the thread carla - I was going to do this, but I've just been swamped! 
First off - Robert: GREAT JOB in PRT! with little or no guidance, you've done phenomenal and I HONESTLY and TRULY appreciate your willingness to step in!! You get FIRST shot at the Tassles and the Lear Jet trip for christmas! 
Ok... now on to the topics at hand... 
Communicating with each other. That's what this forum is for. Feel free to pm each other (and, like carla said, the new site will allow you to PM 5 people at a time.) - but I would rather the discussion occur in the planning room as it does something very important: it builds a history of issues and how we handle them. We can learn from them and adjust... 
On how to handle threads: My intent is to never delete a thread. I don't like locking threads as this isn't a elementary school - though at times, it can sure seem like that and locking may have to occur. As carla stated, here's the process: 
1. When a topic gets hot and someone makes a personal attack at another person - (for example, "Jane, you ignorant slut"... compared to, "Jane, thats idiotic!"<img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif">.. Don't over react or 'moderate' too quickly - let the members moderate their own behavior - but if it seems to an obvious attempt to 'test the board' or flame - eg wtr and wilson.. then edit it (and by edit - go in and just remove the comment, don't change the words) and then advise that personal attacks aren't welcome.. 
2. if the SAME person does it again or if it seems to go towards a pissing contest - then warn one last time that if continued, the thread will be locked. 
3. At the last resort - meaning the thread is still flaming and it doesn't seem to sink and there is no chance of getting back on topic. Close the thread - but don't preach or explain.. lock it without comment. 
The thing I learned as a moderator and supermod at kick and then later coolrunning is that some people just try to engage you. They WANT to push your buttons.. and the more you try to reason, debate or convince - the more they draw you in. do NOT debate or reason with - just state the position and move on 
IF someone continues to push buttons, we can disable their account here. No account will be deleted - Just disabled. A VERY EFFECTIVE feature at our new site is user moderation. If assigned that block, the user can post whatever they want, but it won't go live until a moderator approves it. That can be turned on and off by user. 
We can't come up with a rule or a process for everything - so, keep this in mind: At all costs - don't get upset; don't take it personal (and THAT is hard); and keep it light (as best you can).. Set a mood, an atmosphere and the power of peer pressure will do the rest. The reason the clubhouse is 'no holds barred' is because thats the environment that is accepted and it doesn't take long to figure it out and climb into it. And thats OK - it's the nature of the place..... 
Set the tone here that we moderate but not control;we give the members the leeway and the assumption they are adults and can be respectful - and that's the tone we will get. 
One last word. If ANYONE posts fulgarity or profanity in a thread TITLE - Delete the thread, pm them and email me. Tell them if it happens again, their account will be disabled. State it clearly and without anger - something to the effect - 
:Using profanity in a thread title is not welcome or appreciated. Your post was deleted. If it occurs again, your account will be disabled and only activated by the admin. 
That's about it... 
Oh - and in case I haven't told you all - I will not override your decision. I may have done something different - but I trust you all to make the best decision based on what you know. You simply can't screw up with this. It is not life/death, it's not going to change the outcome of the worlds events - it is a website.. have fun and be yourself. I have complete faith in you and that is why I can go about doing what I do and know that this place is in very capable hands! 
Best, 
Rich

merigayle · Apr 21, 2007

Rich- what i was most concerned about was the "fuck" in the title of the thread. I know Alex who posts regularly is a child in high school. I am sure there are others and will be others as well. And many users have children. I just cannot stand that in thread titles.

srlopez · Apr 21, 2007

It's in rich's list. thread title vulgarities will get attention... although, yeah, it may sit there for a bit. 
I dunno about high school and "child", though. He knows words *I* don't know. 
Plus, if that's what we're worried about (and I understand the thinking, I promise), then what's in the threads is way way way WAY worse than the word 'fuck' in a title.

diablita · Apr 21, 2007

Hi Rich, 
I agree with this policy completely, but I'm not sure if it's in the original sticky with friendly rules for new people who join (the one at the top of the PRT). If it's not already posted somewhere, maybe it should be. (I skimmed that thread quickly but didn't see it.) While this is a common sense kind of thing, I can see people breaking this rule out of enthusiasm rather than malice.

satfix · Apr 21, 2007

You're right - it's not in the 'sticky'.. Lets see if it occurs again.. If it does, I will post an official announcement that it's not allowed. IF we have to, I'll turn on the censor. 
Thanks

torque · Apr 21, 2007

OK...I understand where Meri is coming from. With regards to WTR's thread, it sat there for quite some time before (I think it was rich) got to it and edited the title. There were at least 3-4 mods on the site that day also. 
Would it be possible to set up a floating admin account so that mods can access it in an emergency situation? The password would have to be changed monthly for security purposes. I'm sure that the account can keep track of who has accessed it so it would have a recording of who was in it and what for. 
What do you think?

srlopez · Apr 21, 2007

You mean like a supermod account. 
Now you can see why it might have been created on coolrunning, and I know you know what can become of it. 
It might be ok over here if we can all agree on what constitutes a real "emergency". 
A thread title with the word "fuck"? 
It's bad and it should be fixed, but if we're that scared of a high schooler seeing the f word, then I maintain...quite seriously, btw... that we have a ton of threads that need bleach. And for the record, if we're that scared of what "children" see, well, maybe I'm not the right guy for this. We have mentions of vibrators, married people flirting with each other, frank mentions of sex... many of which are jokes... yet we're focused on the words "fuck" and "asswipe"... but only in titles... as the stuff we want to protect kids from? Really? 
I appreciate the idea that having more eyes watching this stuff is better, so if we can find a workable way, that's great. 
But I'd like it to be crystal clear on what an emergency is. 
And I don't think bad language is it. 
Pictures in bad taste, yes. Someone going into multiple (3+) threads to follow someone and call them really awful names or threaten them with bodily harm, sure. Posting someone's private information (like a member's phone number), absolutely. 
Sorry it "sat out there" for a long time. No one died in the process and it got fixed.

liath · Apr 21, 2007

Checking in 
I feel I've been practically useless during all this excitement! <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif"> 
I do think the supermod is a good idea though. I've been thinking the PRT is too active for two mods yet more would look like a KGB or something. 
I think that could be the way to address it. 
Adam

liath · Apr 21, 2007

Oh, my other thought do NOT call the accound supermod! 
With some of the issues in the CH recently I doubt that'll go down too well!

Lets talk gang!

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