In between strokes

Tri_coach06 · Jan 3, 2008

All this talk about swimming had me feeling my stroke last night. I noticed some stuff and made a small correction to my rotation. What it did was decrease my SC by 1. Which means I am right in between breaths when I hit the wall. I had a breath right before I started my flip. Now I'm one lower and flip right before I can get a breath. 
Since I have had my shoulder repaired my swim has gotten better and better. I guess leaving the shoulder in the socket is a good thing. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> 
All I need to do now is take some of this new found speed to the O/W 
CS

Stitcher · Jan 3, 2008

Yay... 
That's good to hear. 
Glad to see that the shoulder is behaving. 
now, you need to keep it that way. 
I have a whole weight routine that my trainer and I do...."Happy Shoulder Day" 
We can really tell the difference when I don't do it regularly.

TriBob · Jan 3, 2008

Drop your SC by 1 more and you will be back to breathing again. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">

Tri_coach06 · Jan 3, 2008

It's funny, but I feel out of position and find myself either grabbing a breath, or being out of breath. I like to push off, then 2 dolphin kicks and then swim. I'm finding I can't get the kicks in. Since I can't kick, I'm losing the speed off the wall and have to pull that much harder in the first few strokes to get back into rhythm. It's thrown half the lap off. Or at least that's how it feels. 
I would love to lose one more stroke. It seems like I have a slight pause just before the pull where I stretch toward the wall. I'm gonna work on either eliminating that and gaining a stroke, or give an extra kick and see if I can move forward just enough to lower the stroke by one more. 
I guess I have a lot to work on in the pool. 
CS

Stitcher · Jan 3, 2008

Sheldon with work to do! <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> 
Try starting the kick sooner until you get back to your natural rhythm. See what happens.

Tri_coach06 · Jan 3, 2008

Kick off the wall, or kick in the stroke? 
CS

Stitcher · Jan 3, 2008

Kick off the wall. 
I find that I tend to push, glide, kick, start to swim. 
When I look at REAL swimmers (a.k.a. varsity swimmers @ university), they tend to start kicking sooner off the wall....glide a bit less after the push. 
I can't tell if this is 'cause they're just faster (they are, let's be real), or whether it's a timing thing. 
But, it might make a difference in how you feel in your rhythm throughout one lap if you start your kick sooner, but make it quicker... 
See what happens. 
If you drown....don't do it again! lol

Tri_coach06 · Jan 3, 2008

Got it. I glide before I kick for sure. Mostly because it takes me a second to get into position. I find my right hand moves out after the turn and I have been working on getting it into position faster ornot letting it get out there to begin with. Maybe if I'm thinking about kicking, I'll be in better postion concerning my arm. 
I'm not back in the water until Friday, but I'll keep it in mind. 
Thanks 
CS

Stitcher · Jan 3, 2008

Quite welcome. 
When I flip.....my biceps are already squeezing my ears.....then as I plant my feet on the wall, my arms are extending a bit, then as I push and turn and do a double check on my hand placement (wrist over wrist, fingers over fingers), I'm already long for the stretch. My elbows never get below my chin. My thing that I have to work on is taking my first pull with the hand that's "on the bottom." I tend to want to pull with my right hand first, even if it's the one covering the left. My left hand just naturally wants to go under the right in the streamline. 
But, I used to dive in college....keeping my head about me when I flip is pretty second nature to me. It only took one session of "learning" for me to get flip turns. By the second session, I was pretty smooth with them. 
I will say, though, that there are times when I misjudge timing them....and get a snort full of water. OW! Of course, I don't have sinus trouble for the rest of that day. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">

Tithers · Jan 3, 2008

Now I realize while I do flippies...they aren't nearly as good as yours...dolphin kicks? Hand over hand? Biceps? Oh boi!<img alt="sad2.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad2.gif">

Stitcher · Jan 3, 2008

Practice them slow..... 
I remember the time I finally got the rhythm of them.... 
flip, PLANT, push turn. At first, I was trying to turn and plant at the same time. 
Your feet should plant on the wall when you're on your back, "looking" at the ceiling. Then, you push off and a millisecond after you push you start your turn. 
My other problem, though, is that I turn to the right.....when circle swimming, I'm turning AGAINST the flow of traffic. Makes for some fun workouts. That's the bane of being a lefty, I guess.

Tri_coach06 · Jan 3, 2008

I shared a lane yesterday. The jet is right at the point where I kick off. Everytime I flipped i would plant squarely on the jet and push off. OUCH! A few time I had to stop to make sure I wasn't bleeding in the pool. You would think I would learn after the first time, or the second, or the third, but nope, about half the time I flipped to that side of the pool I hit the damn jet. 
Just to many things to think about, adding one more was to much. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"> 
CS

Stitcher · Jan 3, 2008

Yup...some days.....it's like that. 
There's a lip on the pool where I swim...if you hit above it, you're fine. 
Below it, you're fine..... 
If you straddle it....it's a recipe for feeling like your toes are getting ripped off.

pcsronbo · Jan 4, 2008

ok, there's the problem. No "getting" into position. it's one motion. Drop that second, you got your time back.

Tri_coach06 · Jan 4, 2008

It's my right hand. It ends up in no-where-land off the wall. I need to get the arms together, but for some reason that right arm goes awry. It's carry over from before the surgery when I couldn't tuck it in without it slipping out of joint. It's nice and tight now so I need to learn to keep it in. I know it's creating drag, but it's really not the most important thing I need to work on right now. I need to work on my kick and my rotation. I need to stay straight. 
CS

pcsronbo · Jan 5, 2008

Ahh old bad habit developed. Yeah, esp not a huge concern since it's only during the flips. Unless you do a pool tri <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif">

Tri_coach06 · Jan 5, 2008

Dude, I just reread y post and I think it came across a little mean, or self centered. I apologize, even if you didn't take exception to it. 
Trust me on this, I'll be working on ALL of it. I not only race in races, but I love little PR's. If I can find that second in the flip, I'm looking for it. 
BTW, my flip is probably not very pretty. I've never seen it, but sometimes I'm feet from the wall and sometimes I'm inches. 
When you comin down this way again? 
CS

CoachCarole · Jan 5, 2008

Sheldon ~ 
Here's a suggestion: among the many things you're having to think about while swimming (I'm sorry), do some kicking on your back with fins. Do dolphin kick with your arms above your head in the streamlined position. This will do a TON of things for you, to include massively strengthening your abs (if you think this is easy, try it. It KILLS me!), helping your shoulder socket strengthening by continuing to work on this flexibility, and helping to develop more ofyour kick by using the fins in dolphin fashion. 
When pushing off the wall, yes, glide for a few seconds (1-2?) and then start to as you draw to the surface, then begin arm pull #1. 
You've had to overcome a lot. Stay with it!!

Tri_coach06 · Jan 5, 2008

Thanks. I'm not sure if you remember the thread in MS where I was talking about my shoulder being in my way. I have beat that, finally. The old me could not stretch my right arm out without the shoulder popping out of socket, so I cheated it and started the pull early or out of position. My goal is to be at least half way through the swim before you fly past me. <img alt="notworthy.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/notworthy.gif"> 
Part of my WU is a set of 2x200kick. Each set consists of 25 kick on back, 25 kick on back dolphin/25 kick on side right, 25 kick on side left/50 kick on side switch with one stroke/50 kick on side switch with 3 strokes. I only do kick drills with fins if I feel tired, should I use the fins more often? 
CS

CoachCarole · Jan 5, 2008

I think you're doing great with all the recovery and rehab! Seriously. You have come a long way. 
Fins: personally I like using them when doing dolphin on my back - it strengthens the beejebahs out of my abs, and using the fins can teach you to kick with an easier flow. But, if you're a proficient kicker in general (i.e., you're actually moving forward <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> ) then no, I'd keep the fins off when you kick. 
GOOD JOB! Seriously.

In between strokes

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