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Discussion Starter #1
<p>Hi Kicksters!</p>
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<p>I must say I have been busy reading everyone's race reports.  They are so exciting and inspirational!</p>
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<p>There does seem to be a common thread, especially in the HIM and IM reports...and that is hydration and fueling.  I can see this as being an area of concern for me, especially as I increase my distances. </p>
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<p>I am good to go with hydrating/fueling while running.  However, it's the bike that gets me every time.  How do you develop a hydration/fuel plan for the bike?  Is there a chart I can follow or is it trial and error?</p>
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<p>Thanks as always!</p>
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<p>Erica</p>
 

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<p>It's mostly trial and error. All guidelines are just that, guidelines. Most really mean nothing, well, maybe a start point.</p>
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<p>I have an athlete that will drink 1-20oz bottle an hour for just about any distance. I drink 2 and 3 times that. </p>
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<p>Over the years people have said things that are based on truth and some that are based on old wives tales, but what it really comes down to is training and logging what works and what doesn't. "If you drink only when your thirsty, it's to late!" Really? Does the body really have no idea when it needs hydration? Is it absolutely to late, or can you catch up? I heard that if you haven't peed by the midway point on the bike in an IM, that your way behind. Really? What if I peed just before I got out of the water? Is it really not possible for me to go 2.5 hours without peeing?</p>
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<p>The only way to know how much you need is to test it. It's very simple. Weigh yourself before you go out. Naked of course. Weight yourself when you come back in. Naked of course. If you have lost more than 2% of your total weight, you didn't drink enough. Can't get much more simple than that, right? Of course that's over simplifying things. Temperature, humidity, exertion level, prior hydration status, hormone levels, full moon, amount of solar flares... Oh wait, the last 2 aren't in there, but you get it. Things change so that means you have to weigh yourself before and after every ride. You have to log it, you have to mention temp and humidity and how much you drank so that when you look back over the month or 2 mths, you can see the trends.</p>
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<p>How much do you need to drink for an IM?  This much... (_) x ???</p>
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<p>CS</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>slow_n_steady</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/70163/hydration-plan#post_1946001"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>...and even when you have seemingly done everything right, sometimes it still backfires on you.</p>
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I think Scott just proved that. <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/shock.gif" title=""></p>
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<p>CS</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>slow_n_steady</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/70163/hydration-plan#post_1946001"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>...and even when you have seemingly done everything right, sometimes it still backfires on you.</p>
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No pun intended, right s_n_s?!!  <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;" title=""></p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>KitKat</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/70163/hydration-plan#post_1946081"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><br><p><br><br>
No pun intended, right s_n_s?!!  <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;" title=""></p>
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Right....and if anyone would know about backfiring, it is me after IMC.</p>
 

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<p>Tri_Coach is right on many points.  The hydration rules for the magical 2% number are based in good science.  It has been confirmed that at 2% dehydration there is a performance decline, and that is usually when the thirst response kicks in.  In addition, the thirst response will only account for about half of your overall re-hydration needs.  So relying on thirst isn't a good marker in such a high demand sport.  Ideally you would consume 3cups of fluid for each pound of weight lost during activity.</p>
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<p>As for nutrition, the latest guidelines are that if the activity is 1 hour or less, the CHO (carbohydrate) in a sports drink is usually sufficient.  For activity of more than 1 hour then you should consume 30-60g CHO/hour.  This is ~6-12oz of sports drink every 15-30 minutes.  The solid forms of CHO will take longer to digest, but will offer a sustained benefit. </p>
 

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<p>Long course hydration/nutrition planning is not a simple subject.  The starting point I've been given is anywhere from 300-750 calories per hour is what you need to take in.  That's a huge range, but you need to experiment based on your body size, the temperature, your experience and your individual tolerance.  Some people can just take in more calories than others.  You then need to figure out how much of that is going to be liquid, how much is gel, how much (if any) is solid food.  A bottle of gatorade is 150 cal.  A powergel is 110.  How much can you tolerate?  You have to figure that out on training rides.  That's why it is critical to practice fueling during races.  How much sodium you need is going to depend on how much you sweat out.  Can you get all the sodium you need from the nutrition/hydration products or do you need sodium supplements?  Are you going to use the nutrition that is provided on-course or bring your own, or some combination of the two?  There are a lot of questions you need to answer.  Folks here may help you know what questions to ask, I think this is one area where having a coach really helps.  You can figure it out on your own though.</p>
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<p>The other thing to keep in mind is that your hydration/fueling plan is just a starting point.  You need to be ready to adjust it based on conditions.  Your hydration/fueling is going to be different if its 65 degrees and raining than if its 90 degrees and clear skies.  So you can't just have one nutrition plan that you go into a big race assuming that plan will get you through it.  You need to be ready to adjust it on the fly based on race-day conditions and how your body is reacting.  Hopefully you've had a chance to practice your hydration/fueling plans across a wide range of conditions during training.</p>
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<p>I've just started to touch on what you need to consider for your hydration and nutrition plans for a long course race.</p>
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<p>Mike</p>
 

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<p>Alaska Mike said some great things......</p>
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<p>Start with a base plan that's based on what you read, or what science says...</p>
<p>then, go "up" or "down" in training based on mood/weather/conditions/advice.</p>
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<p>Settle on something that seems to work in most situations, and go from there.</p>
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<p>I found what worked for me in training regarding FREQUENCY of drinking while riding, and then would adjust VOLUME based on conditions.  That way, I didn't get too far behind in terms of forgetting.....I knew how much of my bottle should be empty every so-many minutes and went from there.</p>
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<p>I also knew that the BULK of my calories would be provided by ME.</p>
<p>I would get supplemental calories on course. </p>
<p>That way, I felt more secure because I knew I'd be carrying what I needed, + a spare bottle's worth of fuel unmixed.  And, if I needed variety, I could get bananas or something on course. </p>
<p>I also knew that bananas would ALWAYS sit well on my gut, no matter the temperatures, so they were safe to use on course.</p>
<p>I also knew that orange flavor gatorade will ALWAYS sit will on my gut, no matter the temperatures, so it was safe to use as a supplement or for variety.</p>
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<p>OTOH.....I did a marathon where the on course drink (other than water) was BLUE powerade.</p>
<p>NASTY. (at least for me.)</p>
<p>Blue powerade will NEVER NEVER NEVER pass through my mouth during a race, or for that matter, EVER.  It's gross.  I did try it before the race, and it was "ok" but when race day came.....nope, no dice.</p>
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<p>So, I'd say find a base plan that you can use to fall back on,</p>
<p>know the safe things that will always work,</p>
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<p>Follow advice that Thor gave here once:</p>
<p>heat = fluid over fuel</p>
<p>cold = fuel over fluid</p>
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<p>But ultimately experiment experiment experiment.</p>
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<p>I think that's why it's also important to train in all weather conditions (when safe).</p>
<p>Cold</p>
<p>Rain</p>
<p>Heat</p>
<p>Wind</p>
<p>Whatever......that way, you have many data points to use in your fluid/fuel experiments.</p>
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<p>The only exception is lightning or BAD BAD wind that's dangerous.  No need getting struck or blown to Kansas in training.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #10
<p>Thank you for all the great advice!  I have a 35-40 mile ride tomorrow.  Since I already know that I don't drink enough on rides, I will start with increasing frequency.  It is supposed to get into the 80s tomorrow so volume may be an issue as well.  Let the experiment begin!</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>1Topodope</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/70163/hydration-plan#post_1946419"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Thank you for all the great advice!  I have a 35-40 mile ride tomorrow.  Since I already know that I don't drink enough on rides, I will start with increasing frequency.  It is supposed to get into the 80s tomorrow so volume may be an issue as well.  Let the experiment begin!</p>
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It helps me to set my watch timer to beep at me every 15 minutes to remind me to eat/drink. Otherwise I tend to forget.</p>
 
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