how to organise a week's cycling sessions

pete_72 · Mar 20, 2008

Okay, I have the trainer and a proto-plan (from googling) but need help: 
I have 4 sessions available for cycling. a weekend slot that can go any length of time. 3 evenings where one can be 60 mins (probably follow a run) and two time 90 min sessions where they are they only activity of the evening. 
The sessions: 
1 * Endurance. Start at two hours and increase by ten mins a week to three hours. 5 to 10 mins per 30 mins of increased resistance to replicate hills. Steady cadence, rhythm and speed. Weekend the obvious slot for this. 
1 * Speed/endurance. 90 mins with 30 min WU; 30 mins of 3*(5mins sprint/5mins recovery); 30mins CD. 
1 * Speed. 60 min. 20WU; 40*30sec sets of 10/20 recovery where the 10 secs is at 1Hr target wattage; 20 CD. And increase the number of sets to 60 incrementally week by week. 
1 * Power/endurance. 90 min session where I use the resistance settings to replicate hills. In either 5 or 10 or 15 minute blocks; low cadence. 
What am I missing? Anything anyone does that I could add? Does this look too demanding? 
cheers, for any help <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">

COcarrie · Mar 20, 2008

Ya got me, I'm a cycling moron. But I'm impressed.

MBannon · Mar 21, 2008

Only problem I can see is that it's a whole lot of indoor trainer time just as the nice weather and daylight is approaching. Here is how I would re-structure (take it or leave it, I understand there are myriad reasons for sticking to the trainer): 
Endurance - Weekend long ride. 
Speed/Endurance - 2 x 90 min outdoor rides, steady pace fairly hard for 30 min, 40 min of 5 min attack intervals, 20 min steady at easy pace 
Speed - Alternate 1 week 60 min of trainer intervals, 1 week 60 min hill workout (w/u, hill repeats, c/d) 
Power/Endurance - Rolled into Speed/Endurance (cuz really, what's the difference?) 
I'm not downplaying the role of the trainer, but I think you need more than 1 road ride per week. Trainers are great tools, but you still need to put in the miles.

Thor · Mar 21, 2008

Bannon pretty much nailed it. Get out on the roads if you can. Keep one Trainer workout until it becomes too hot. Do hills, like real hills, don't simulate them. Tough intervals you can simulate. If all you are doing is Triathlons, I'd say don't bother getting out of the saddle. Learn to hit hills while staying seated. 
Also, without knowing your current level it's impossible to know if you're overdoing it. To some people that would put them under. To others it would be a stepback week. I'm guessing it's doable for you merely because you listed it here. But know that quality time on the Trainer is probably equivalent to a few more minutes than the road. And it's NOT the same. You cannot expect to ride Trainer only and get out on the roads and kill hills.

hobey · Mar 21, 2008

ITA with what both Bannon & Thor. The trainer is an excellent tool that will enable you to get some very targeted LT and anaerobic work done in a very controlled manner, build strength, and work on pedaling technique but it's not a substitute for the road. Nothing will prepare you for hills unless you ride them. 
I'm not a coach...though I do coach myself but I'd recommend the following: 
1 - Long ride on mostly rolling terrain keeping the HR in Z2/Z3 and build up the distance to about 125-150% of your target race. Toss in a tougher, hillier ride about once/month 
2 - I like Bannon's idea of alternating 60 minutes of intervals & hill repeats 
3 - BRICK. Start by riding easy and running easy then as you get closer to your target race, add in some steady state tempos or fartleks into the middle of both the ride & run 
4 - Shorter mid week steady state recovery like ride. You can double this up with a more challenging workout in the pool

jroden · Mar 21, 2008

What's your goal and what month do you plan on riding well? You can't use a static plan, it should be in hunks of 3-5 weeks with apurpose. If you are just getting rolling, do as much tempo work and long intervals around your LT as you can stomach. Bag the 30 minute cool downs, get on, warm up and get to work, cool down just a little and be done. Keep your quality high. Skip doing endurance on the trainer, take that outside. The 30 secs intervals have no real purpose in there, they are more of a bike racer interval for mid summer. Figure out how to measure your output and each week strive for more output or less recovery and record your heartrate or wattage, it's not a static plan, each week is harder, then you rest and start a new cycle---

3chilipeppers · Mar 21, 2008

I like what everyone has said so far. I agree that getting out on the road as much as possible is important. 
So, sorry for the hijack, but Bannon, Thor, Hobey, etc... how would you work just 3 bikes a week? 
Last season I only got in 2 a week, but it was my first season, so I was just trying to get in the miles. The bike is definitely my weak link, so I'm working on my leg strength by doing squats and such at the gym and by adding another workout per week. I also just got a trainer, so I'm hoping to use it to my advantage as well. 
I do my long rides on Saturday morning. Usually it is a rolling route, and I ride pretty easy. On Thursday, I try to get in a ride either in the evening (now that it stays light) on a fairly easy course or in the morning with a friend on a fairly hilly course (I did that today). On Tuesday, I plan to do a trainer ride, but I could also ride outside sometimes (this day is the most limited as far as time). My only other option to add another is at the gym on the stationary bike, and I sometimes do some brick workouts there, but that would just be an extra. 
So, I've got the long ride (endurance), the trainer ride (force, technique, LT, etc...), and one other ride. I can definitely do intervals alternating with hill repeats as Bannon said (I like that idea). The question for me is when to do my bricks. Should I make my Thursday ride a brick? Today that wouldn't happen because I rode a hard course with a friend. That's my opportunity to ride some good hills, though. Would you recommend a brick off the trainer?? 
I'm just looking for some guidance before I actually get my plan set. Right now, I do a little of everything, but I don't really have a plan as to when I do everything. I'm still working out my swims. Right now, I'm only fitting in one a week unless I scrap my ride on Thursday and swim instead. UGH!! I have so few hours without kids that it is hard to fit it in (that's why I got the trainer) Any input would be appreciated.

jroden · Mar 21, 2008

I'd do tempo for sure on the one day, that's the best bang for the buck. Bricks would be a pretty low priority item in my book, build the motor and maybe you run a little slow for 5 minutes and lose 30 seconds. I'd do all quality on the bike, but don't go anaerobic much at all, just work on building your sustainable power.

hobey · Mar 21, 2008

Kelli: I'm only maxing out at three bikes/week this year. 
In my last two base periods, I was doing 2/week. One was on the trainer doing LT intervals, low cadence strength work, and technique. One was a long ride outside on varied terrain and I only just introduced some serious hills. 
This period, I'm adding a third ride. This ride is either a Z2 recovery, tempo, or a flat spin focusing on keeping cadence above 90 lasting up to 90 minutes or so. My trainer rides are now completely all LT/anaerobic intervals up to 60 minutes and I'm working on getting my long ride up to three hours on hills. 
I haven't started BRICKs yet and I won't be doing them weekly until mid-April (yeah...do as I say and all <img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif">). I'm planning to do mine as an extension of my long ride if I'm riding easier that week. As I get closer to Alcatraz, I'll be throwing in some race pace efforts in the middle of the bike and run during the BRICKs. The third midweek ride would also be a good place to do them.

3chilipeppers · Mar 21, 2008

O.K. That sounds good. I don't plan to do bricks every week. Last year, I did very few (every other week just a few weeks before a race), but I do think my run suffered a bit. I think for my sprints I need to do the bricks, but for the longer distance it will just be to see if I can do the distance. That will be a while, though (my HIM is in Oct.) 
So, for a tempo ride, where should my HR be?? Z3-4? How long a ride? I know right now I can't sustain for too long. Would you suggest riding hard for a while, then easy, then hard, then easy?? Or should I only ride as long as I can sustain? See, I can do tempo runs, but I don't have the power issue. 
One other thing -- lots of my routes have lights. I really can't avoid it without driving somewhere. There are just a few, but is it better to ride where there are fewer stops or does it matter? 
So, long ride, tempo ride, trainer intervals or hill repeats. Sound good for a plan? That makes it easier. The bricks are hard to work in, but I can even do those at the gym on my gym day (Wednesday). 
Thanks JR!

3chilipeppers · Mar 21, 2008

Hobey- Thanks! That helps a lot too. So, I should for sure get in the long ride and some intervals and technique work on the trainer. Then, the tempo ride could be my other one. Your serious hills are probably much harder than my serious hills. My ride today was quite hilly, though! Some were really long climbs. Those are the hardest for me. 
I'm thinking of doing my bricks as an extension of my long ride as well. They are usually easy rides (though I can't avoid some hills on those long rides)

jroden · Mar 21, 2008

Can you hold an umpempo and consistent pace for 20 mins? if no, 2x10 w/ a 5 min rest? Find a starting point and work on making this ride longer, it should be a challenge but not leave you too tired, it's a good one to do the day before a sharper workout, for example I did tempo yesterday on the trainer and v02 max intervals today (2 and 3 mins, pretty hard to very hard). If you are still working on strength, use the traffic lights to practice spinning your bike up to speed from a standing start in a harder gear and use it to practice clipping in without looking. 
I don't know about zones, but here's me--I do tempo at maybe 155 bpm or a little more, then I do my 10 mins intervals at 160 ish, still below at, then maybe 163-165 for 5 mins intervals, 168 for 3 mins w/ equal rcovery (vo2 max, alter in cycle for you) and 171 for 2 mins w/ double recovery, that's anaerobic for an old guy like me. 
My endurance rides are nearly always in the hills and I try to climb briskly and will often incorporate some sprinting or tempo into the ride, it's not like running, it's ok to work some different systems in one workout, in fact you have to at 3 days a week. 
Don'r spend too much time on pedaling drills, learn to ride then work on your cornering and bike handling, many triathletes are dreadful at this.

3chilipeppers · Mar 21, 2008

It depends on what "uptempo" is. I actually don't know how long I can hold an uptempo pace because I rarely can do that with lights and hills. I guess I can try it on the trainer first, huh? I don't know my speed on my trainer because my sensor is on the front wheel (we tried switching it, but it is wireless and won't reach that far!) So, should I be spinning around 90 rpm when doing tempo? (I don't have a cadence meter, but I'm pretty good knowing from using stationary bikes). I'll see how long I can hold a good pace and go from there. 
I have done the stop light thing where I stay in a higher gear to start. That is really good. I can clip in without looking most of the time (sometimes the pedal gets weird, but I can usually do it without looking). 
O.K. It looks like your zones are roughly 10 bmp slower than mine (I'm younger and female), so it looks like tempo is zone 3, then you bump it up to lower zone 4 for long intervals, then upper zone 4 and up for the shorter intervals. I can work with that. That's basically what I do when running. Do you do all the same interval or mix them up? I know when I run, I do them all the same and alter that according to the distance I'm training for (400m for 5K and 10K, 800m for HM, 1 mile for mary, etc...) Does it work the same on the bike or do you vary them all the time? 
Oh, when I ride big hills, my HR is WAY up there. My avg. HR today was 156 which is very upper zone 2 to low zone 3 for cycling, but my max was 201. So, I was working hard on the hills. I climbed them fairly fast (for me) because I was trying to keep up with my riding partner, but when not climbing I wasn't pushing all that hard. I'm sure I was working all kinds of stuff today!! I know I was working my glutes and quads because I feel it! 
I did one Spinerval DVD on technique, and it had some pedaling drills that helped me a lot, but I don't have to do those much. I may revisit them in a month just to make sure I'm still doing it all right. I was just reading about how to corner, and I wasn't doing it right! So, now I have to practice. I have LOTS of corners to practice on in a residential area, so I'll try those next time. 
Thanks for all the advice. Sorry I have so many questions, but the bike is still kind of foreign to me from a training standpoint. I've got the swimming and running down, but it is just harder on the bike because I need longer distances to train on, etc... I can't go ride my bike on the track!! It seems like there is just more involved as well. Maybe I'm just making it too complicated.

jroden · Mar 21, 2008

Kelli--90 or so rpm's is fine for your tempo. You want to ride for a fair chunk of time where you are working hard but not fading over the time period. It doesn't have to be killing you, but hard enough that you have to concentrate pretty hard and work. The stop lights are problematic, you may like the trainer for these, they are not so much fun but are a good way to improve, you can do that ride once or twice a week. 
I'd mix things up within a cycle, there is nothing wrong with that, just remember the important rule that your goal is to be pregressive, not do the same old crap every week, so more work, more faster or less recovery. 
In terms of the hills, be a little careful of going anaerobic or working too hard with unstructured training with others. It won't kill you, but it takes longer to recover and may not be the best thing for you now. If I don't intend to ride hard up a hill for a reason, I'll just ride up and we can regroup at the top. I don't like to let others dictate my training pace, it can screw things up. 
Sounds like you are on the right track. If you can stomach doing tempo on the trainer (I do it but it's a real strain to my mind, 80 mins of work is about my max plus warmup for 20) then it will help your speed and fitness the most. 
The other option to also consider is working on your postion while doing your rides outside and really thinking about getting yourself low and reducing your frontal area. It takes effort and time, but that will help matters a lot too.

3chilipeppers · Mar 22, 2008

Thanks! I'll try doing some tempo on the trainer (UGH!!). I do have a route I do on my long rides that has very few stops, but it does have some hills, but I might be able to do a tempo ride there. I'll take a look at it more closely the next time I ride it. 
Oh, on the hills, I wasn't trying to keep up. I was trying not to fall over!! They were some pretty good hills, so I'd get down to 5-6 mph going up. I do fine on short, steep hills, but the longer ones kill me. I guess that's where the tempo rides can help, huh? Oh, I also stay seated on all hills, if possible (I did stand a couple times on my last ride). Is that the best thing to do? I'm not very good at standing because I rock back and forth too much. I need to work on that on a less steep hill, I guess. 
On the position, I have a hard time with it (you probabaly remember me posting pictures last year). I do have aerobars on my road bike, but that's mostly for the option to change position. It relieves my back. Plus, it really helps in strong wind. I don't have my handlebars very low because I'd rather be comfortable. I guess I need to reach a happy medium there. I need to go to the bike shop and get them to fit me (my shop is cheap for that) with the aerobars. I never did that. I should probably just start lowering the handlebars a little bit at a time. I think they are about even with my saddle right now.

jroden · Mar 22, 2008

Kelli--all things being equal, you will climb faster seated, but standing can be nice to switch up a little, regain your cadence or get your rpm's back up over the top. 
In terms of the aero bars, it's an either-or proposition--you drop the bars and slide the seat well forward and perhaps shorten the stem, so now your hips are more open in the aero bars, but the bike fits and handles like crap riding in the drops--sorry, no free lunch on that one... 
Many people, me included, own a road bike (or two) for much of the daily riding and a tri (or TT) bike for individual start events. I ride mine during the summer months once or twice a week, it's pretty uncomformatble.

3chilipeppers · Mar 22, 2008

Well, I never ride in the drops now that I have the aerobars. Maybe that's a bad thing, but I'm just not really into riding in the drops. I've not even had my bike a year, so I'm still so new. I guess I'll just have to play around and see what works best for me. 2 bikes is not an option (I already have 2 because I have a mountain bike). So, I'll just have to figure out what works for me. I'm not THAT serious, but I would like to see an increase in my average speed at tris. Last year, my fastest was 18.4. That was after training on a mountain bike, then a road bike that was too big, then I got my current bike 2 weeks before the tri. I guess that wasn't too bad, but that was my first tri (VERY hilly). My other 3 were slower paces (17 mph or less). They were on rolling hills. I need to work on that more, I guess. I think the tempo rides and building strength will help more than my position, so I'll probably just stick with what I've got and work harder. <img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif">

jroden · Mar 22, 2008

Kelli--you can have as many as 6 bikes and that's OK, you need one for cyclocross racing too. Since you don't have winter, I guess you don't need a winter bike, that's for us snow country people. 
Here's what I'd do if I were you--loosen up the bolt (5mm allen wrench usually" that alows for fore and aft seat adjustment and slide the seat all the way forward on the rails, you may need to adjust the nose down a bit, but try to keep the seat pretty much level. Go out for a ride in the aero bars with the seat like that and see if it feel faster, give it a little time. Make sure to rotate your pelvis in the aero bars and not just bend your lumbar spine. 
Over time, you may wish to remove spacers one at a time from under your stem. I bring a wrench and do this during rides and see how it feels. 
If your hands are too far in front of you, you may need a shorter stem, but leave that for later. 
That's about it, no need to visit a shop just yet.

dragonsrouges · Mar 22, 2008

Don't know where Pete is from but if he's anywhere near where I am, they are calling for another 6 weeks of snow... And the City's budget for snow removal has expired sometime around December so until the hot weather comes to melt the snow, no pothole work will get done! Just to give you an example, it is -21C (-6F) today and all weekend.

3chilipeppers · Mar 24, 2008

Um... no 6 bikes for me!! LOL! Cyclocross? Are you kidding me? I'd kill myself doing that! My garage is already overfflowing with the 6 bikes we already have in there (DH and I each have 2 bikes, plus DDs' bikes) 
My seat is already pretty far forward, but I think it will move a bit. It is tilted ever so slightly forward, so I think I'll keep that angle. I have quite a few spacers. I removed one of the 4 last year. So, I still have 2 thicker ones and one thinner one (I think they may be roughly 1 inch and 1/2 inch). I'm thinking I'll remove the other smaller one and see what I think. Here is a photo of me last year. This was my last tri of the year, and I had just gotten the aerobars. I essentially just put them on there without adjusting anything. I'm actually lower in the drops than on the bars right now (is that normal?), so I think I need to take out some spacers a bit at a time. I know my seat height is right because the bike shop did that for me. I look VERY upright, though. I didn't want to make any sudden changes at that time, though. Looking at the angle of my arms, I don't think I'll need a longer stem even when I move the seat forward. <img alt="" src="http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/kdhughes/IMG_1230.jpg" style="border:0px solid;">

how to organise a week's cycling sessions

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