How far would the bike fitness take you in a marathon?

Yo Sake · Oct 19, 2010

Definately further than I thought. My husband has just run 3:58 and change at Detroit. Other than 2 long-ish runs (12.5mile trail race in Ogden UT 3 wks ago and 16miler 2 weeks ago), I can count with ONE hand for how many times he ran for the last 3-4 months. "Training" is just not his thing - he runs when he can (which is not that often) for his health. I know, 3:58 is not a super tough time goal to hit for a 43-yrs old man, but many train hard and long to go sub-4. He doesn't have a running background or any endurance sports background, other than did some road cycling including a few centuries a few decades ago. He doesn't have a 'natural' runners build either. (In addition, his pediatrician told his mom when he was little that he had to wear leg braces to help his legs get straighter and that he wouldn't be able to run normally) One thing he does on a regular basis is mountain biking. He did about 10 races this year, but again with his busy schedule, he would be lucky if he could ride 2x/wk. And he likes going hard, not a 3-4hrs of endurance ride. He goes to yoga class 1/wk on average. 
 
Based on his marathon #1 (2007) at 4:40 & #2 (2009) at 4:20 for which he did a little more running than this year, I thought sub4 was too aggressive. You need to 'respect the distance' right? Of course I didn't say any of this (I need his support too <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;" title="">). The only thing I repeatedly reminded him was, to stay with 4hr pace group no matter how easy the pace felt at early miles. I found him at 20k mark (12.4mile) and ran the rest of the course with him. He gave me lots of credit for pacing him right but at the end of the day he ran the whole 26.2. And he ran with 1.5mininute positive split. To me (and I think Pftiznger's book said this too), that sounds like a perfect pacing. 
 
I would think cutting another 20min would require some more running. But who knows? I was just impressed and surprised cardio fitness and strength from mountainbiking would help running a long distance this much.
 
Any thoughts?

Zdoc · Oct 19, 2010

This is interesting that you brought this up, because I just ran the Green Mt Marathon in Vermont on Sunday on very sparce marathon training. I spent the summer triathlon training, which meant only about 20-25 mpw of running. The only runs more than about 10 miles were in the three, half Ironman races I did. I havent run more than 14 miles in about two years. The last race was Sept 12th, 5 weeks ago. In the past five weeks, I did push up the miles, running one half marathon and three, 2-2.5 hour runs. So, weekly milage averaged about 40 during this time
The race went well, in spite of gale winds off of Lake Champlain, and I ran 3:11:58. Solid, but not spectacular. The mental side was easy. Three hours is no big deal when you have been training for half-iron races. I would have liked a few more running miles in my legs, because I feel the soreness today. I'll bet your husband is sore today, too.
If I had to do it differently, I thik I'd have thrown in a two hour run every three or so weeks over the summer, then ramp up training in the last five weeks. Maybe even do a few road races. But, bike fitness definately helps, and is a great carry-over for running. 
As an aside,after much debate, I decided to register for Boston. I finished registration at 5:01 (delayed since we were still in Vermont), and found out registration closed at 5:03.
Fate ??

pcsronbo · Oct 19, 2010

fox-runr · Oct 19, 2010

I don't know <img alt="sad.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies//sad.gif">
 
I only did one long run.......I did run a half a few weeks ago where I ran 7:00 pace for 8 miles and then got bored and dragged a 20-something girl along with me, I kept kicking it up a notch until we were at 6:30 pace
 
last year I only did one long run before running a 3:32 in my IM. I "do" think that my multiple years of specifically training for marathons helped and the further away I get from running long, the harder it will be. I do know that although that 1:27 half seemed effortless...I felt some DOMS days afterwards, something completely new to me for a half marathon.
 
 So I think that biking long will help in a big way cardiovascularly, but not a real lot muscularly...so if you can put your muscles through the wringer..they can carry you.........and I would think mountain bikers are much better equipped to withstand the pain than road bikers. So, I think your husband has the main ingredients to become really, really good (patients and being uncomfortable) if he desires to put some time into training. How exciting for you!!!!

mrscoby78 · Oct 19, 2010

I hate you. 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by fox-runr <a href="/forum/thread/70722/how-far-would-the-bike-fitness-take-you-in-a-marathon#post_1955226"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a> that 1:27 half seemed effortless
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 <img alt="wink.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies//wink.gif">

4boysmom · Oct 19, 2010

I can only hope! This season I've focused on tri training. Scaled way back on both run and bike. Very few OW swims. After my 70.3 I started ramping up the run miles, training for this weekend's marathon. My 20 felt easy, like I could have done at least another 3 or so. My pace? 8:50. MP is 8:45. I'm thinking unless I do something really stupid, I should be able to BQ. Now that's a scary thought!

gobi · Oct 19, 2010

I got injured last year and got back on a bike, I can honestly say I am aerobically fitter than I was before injury but my last marathon was 12 minutes slower than my PR(not a perfect course) rather than the 6 minutes slower that I was aiming for. I paid for my lack of hard run miles with calf and hamstring fatigue.
 
Guess we are all different, I have another race in 3 weeks so will be interesting to see if my body holds together better. Knocked out 18.5 at the weekend at a reasonable pace without any distress and doubled that with a nice 10.25 the next morning.
 
Watch this space.

Yo Sake · Oct 20, 2010

First of all, "How much would the bike fitness help you in a marathon" would be a better title of this thread. One of my observations from the posts is that at the higher level you would need running specific training to run... a faster marathon. General cardio fitness from cycling would go only so far, but definately a big help to achieve 4hr marathon.

jenotter · Oct 20, 2010

I don't have first-hand experience at all on this...but my cousin is a group fitness instructor at a YMCA who teaches 3-4 spin classes, 2 cardio/strenth classes, and some other class (can't remember) each week (along with some weight training a couple times a week). She does one short run or hill workout on Tuesday nights, and a long run on the weekends. She was basically doing this while training for the Palos Verdes Marathon, and ended qualifying for Boston with a 3:59. She is training for a November trail marathon with the same schedule and I'm sure rock that too.
 
And yes, I totally feel like a slacker around her.

niemsco · Oct 20, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Yo Sake <a href="/forum/thread/70722/how-far-would-the-bike-fitness-take-you-in-a-marathon#post_1955553"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> First of all, "How much would the bike fitness help you in a marathon" would be a better title of this thread. One of my observations from the posts is that at the higher level you would need running specific training to run... a faster marathon. General cardio fitness from cycling would go only so far, but definately a big help to achieve 4hr marathon.
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 My observation is that specific marathon training would raise your threshold pace, allowing you to run at a higher level. Since you are not doing a lot of near or over LT runs, most likely, general bike fitness will allow you aerobically hold something a bit faster than say E-pace for a period of time. For example I did a marathon training run a few years ago while IM training, where I was running 20-25 miles a week, nothing really fast, and held a just over 8min pace for the entire thing. 8min pace is something I was use to running in most of my training runs in z2. I average a z2 workout for the 26.2 miles, bleeding into z3 at the end. However I was in no shape to run anything higher for that duration. I think in a marathon, like Mike, may run something much nearer his threshold and maintain it the entire time because he specifically trains for it. I could never have done that during my IM build up as I train at a slower pace, supplemented with a lot cycling.

How far would the bike fitness take you in a marathon?

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