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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">I run a 5K every day -- I’ll do my 500</span></span><sup><span style="font-size:small;">th</span></sup><span style="font-size:medium;">5K next week.  About 4 months ago I stopped running easy-hard and just started running each 5K at the same speed.  My 30-day average speed improved.  It was pretty surprising.</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">It’s disgustingly hot and humid where I train, so I do about 90% of my training in the AC on the evil machine.  When I get comfortable running at one speed, I move it up 0.1 mph, and run at that speed until I feel comfortable – about 40 days.  Over the months I have been able to run faster and faster.  I’ve had no serous injuries other than occasional episodes with PF, MN and DOMS.</span></span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">I can normally cool the training room to about 78 degrees.  With two fans blowing directly on me, I can get in a good session.</span></span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">This weekend I ran my first race of the season.  It was obscenely hot, 86F, there was a single hill and it was all on hot asphalt.  I was a little slower (9:49 min/mile) than my present plateau on the TM (9:33 min/mile).  I was disappointed. </span></span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">Last year I did a minute faster in competition than I was doing at that time on the mill.  I couldn’t believe that running in direct sunlight in 86 F would cause me to run so much slower than what I do inside in the AC.</span></span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">Do you find that your pace drops off when you run outside in the heat and the sun.  I just didn’t expect it to have such a dramatic effect?</span></span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family:'times new roman';"><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">Ted</span></span></span></span></p>
 

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<p>I think heat can have an effect, but it is probably varies from person to personl.  Do you have the evil machine set for some incline? To properly simulate wind resistance, it should be at least 0.5% incline.</p>
 

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<p>This is controversial, at least once I get involved it is.  I hold two major premises.  1) you need to train to tolerate heat.  2) a 5k is too short to be affected by heat.</p>
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<p>The latter may be dependent on the former.</p>
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<p>1) Studies have been done that show a cooled runner outperforms himself compared to heat stress conditions.  The muscles simply have more blood to dedicate to performance.  Once you divert some to cooling, well....you can do the arithmetic.  </p>
<p>That said, racing occurs in heat stress conditions.  So the cooling system, both sweat rate and diverting blood to surface capillaries, needs to be developed and exercised.  This is similar to doing intervals to develop speed.  Running most of the time in heat will develop a resistance to wilting in heat.  With a good cooling system, yes you will slow some, but everyone else will slow more.  So no PR but an increased standing in AG and OA standing.</p>
<p>This does take time so do not run indoors because it's hot.  Weigh yourself before and after and learn your sweat rate.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, occasionally you want to do a workout that is dedicated to building strength.  Planning on a cool day or doing it (gasp) on a TM is smart.  You want the muscles to have every advantage to put it out there.  If blood is diverted to cooling, then not the best workout.</p>
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<p>2) Based on personal experience (always a danger when debating).  Once you have a decent cooling system, you should hydrate well before, warm up normally, and run the race without taking water.  Especially faster runners in the 15-20min range, your body is just realizing the heat and you're done.  20-25min, maybe some effect but not much.  Slower runners 25-35min, yes, your second half is going slower, and it's most likely the time and a less efficient cooling system.</p>
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<p>My personal experience is 15-30 sec increase in 5k time at 90 deg vs less than 70.</p>
<p>In an 86 deg. marathon I made it (stupidly) to 20M on pace before crashing badly, and limping with 20 min lost in the last 6.</p>
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<p>Craig</p>
 

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<p>I train outdoors in the heat and humidity of Jacksonville Florida for about 8 months out of the year and I can definitely see a difference in my times across all distances as the temps and humidity go up! </p>
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<p>I don't know if I will ever be able to do Chicago, NY or the marine Corp marathons since they are so early in the fall and I would have to be trying to survive 10 - 18 mile runs in this heat and humidity.</p>
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<p>I've just done a bunch of calculations based on race times in 2010.</p>
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<p>Rather than go through the methodology, I'll just give you the result.</p>
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<p>10 seconds per mile.</p>
 

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<p>i looked at some world-class times performed in heat.  up to about 95f i could fit the decreasing times just using the perfect gas law.  i think after 95f other factors play important roles, like cooling efficiency, etc.  i'll try to look up that little blurb... i think i wrote it down someplace.</p>
 

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<p>From the races I did earlier this summer, I believe 10 seconds/mile is pretty close for a 5k.  Aside from the temp, the humidity is much more a factor if it is also high.  When I ran some  5 mile races, I was closer to 15 seconds/mile slower.  In general training, I was 25-30 seconds/mile slower over 10 miles.</p>
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<p>What may be more telling is that you changed your training from hard/easy to steady.  While your avg time went down, that may have been a detriment for racing.  If you race very little, you may want to throw one hard 5k in each week or two.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">Fortunate One.  No, the evil machine is set flat.  At my speed (6.3 mph, 9:30 min/mile) wind resistance is pretty tiny.  In still air, air resistance becomes meaningful at speeds above 8.6 mph (7:00 min/mile).    Unfortunately a surface head wind of just 10 mph, would mean that a runner would be encountering a wind resistance due to 16.3 mph.  That would be significant.</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">TheProFromDover:  You raise a good point regarding training in the heat.  For obvious reasons, the military has done a lot of research in this area.  I think they found that it takes about a month for a solder to adapt to higher temps.</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">I wonder if, other than during adolescence, how much is it possible to improve our core-to-surface heat transport system (1). </span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">Do people from the tropics have different circulatory systems compared to people who are raised in northern latitudes?  Can Kenyan runners shed heat faster than others?</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">How do competitors survive desert runs?  Maybe the humidity is so low in the desert that they can shed their 100 kcals per mile through sweat evaporation.  That would be about 6 oz of water per mile!  Is that reasonable?</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">RipvanRacer: "While your avg time went down, that may have been a detriment for racing."</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">Yes, I totally agree with you.  I would not recommend this experiment to anyone.</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">Ted</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">(1) There was an interesting segment on NPR recently about HGH and athletes who rebuild their muscle tissue.</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129359637" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:medium;"><span style="color:#800080;">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129359637</span></span></a></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">You can read or listen to the segment.  It basically raised the issue of muscle cell nuclei:</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:medium;"><span style="color:#333333;"><span style="font-family:arial;">"We know that to get these new nuclei, it's much easier when you are young," he said. "To me, that suggests that you should then train while you are still young and when it is still easy to recruit these nuclei, and you might benefit from that when you get older."</span></span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:arial;"><span style="font-size:medium;">I wonder if this also applies to our ability to shed heat.</span></span></p>
 
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