Help with knee pain

RunningForT3 · Mar 8, 2008

So far... in almost 4 years of running I never had any kind of knee problems. But looks (or feels) like my time has come. 
I'm trying to describe, maybe someone has a suggestion (I'll ignore postings that include the word "doctor"<img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif">.. it hurts when flexing the left knee, when going down stairs. Not a sharp or unbearable pain, but I feel it well and don't think I could run. Doesn't hurt on touch or pressure at all, only when flexing (harder when I try to flex it completely). Hard to say where it is... fells very close to the surface, somewhere near the inside/top part of the knee cap. 
Actually, I hurt both knees Saturday while skiing, but there were only superficial bruises and swells. Actually, it's the other knee that's more bruised... a big black one that hurts, but the kind that wouldn't let me bike or run. I have a bruise on the left knee too, but it's just under the kneecap. 
Is there any chance that it's related to that bruise? So that it will go away soon and it's not running-related? I'd appreciate any help from people who've had such issues before.......

3chilipeppers · Mar 8, 2008

It could be bruised internally. When I was in my car wreck, both of my knees were bruised badly. I had almost no noticeable bruising on the outside, but my left knee was bruised VERY badly. It took 8 weeks to not hurt anymore. I still feel it when I kneel on it a certain way. That was 6 months ago. The pain did move around some, which was weird to me. You don't have much padding in the knees, so when you bruise it, it can be pretty bad. I was able to run o.k., but cycling was out of the question for a good 2 months. 
If it is kind of under the kneecap and not on either side, my guess is bruising. You will be able to tell if you run and the pain doesn't get too much worse. My pain would be slightly worse, esp. when I ran on a trail. I think it was the muscles supporting the knee. When I ran on the road, it hurt less because my ankle wasn't moving around much. KWIM? It was never an agonizing, sharp pain, though, just a dull pain for me.

MBannon · Mar 8, 2008

Sure hope it's not the same thing I've been dealing with all winter, but that's exactly what mine felt like at first. The surface pain eventually went away, to be replaced by pain more "inside" the knee. That's the pain I can't seem to shake.

3chilipeppers · Mar 8, 2008

Did you ever go to the DOCTOR?!

pcsronbo · Mar 8, 2008

RICE 
if you ice it up real good, does the pain go away for a short while?

MBannon · Mar 8, 2008

No. But according to our own rottensquirrel, it's chondromalacia. And according to the internets, that often takes months to resolve. Why didn't the PT guy tell me that??

LookiLoo · Mar 8, 2008

I would take 3-4 days of complete rest, and see how it feels. I had something about a month ago that actually felt like a bruised patella (and it does happen to be the knee that I always seem to be smacking on something, but I digress....) - I posted in the medical thread, and nice Dr. Rottensquirrel suggested complete rest for a couple of days. Seemed to do the trick as my knee is much better now. (keeping fingers crossed that it stays that way!) 
Be careful - it's not easy to overcome knee issues!

jroden · Mar 8, 2008

When you cycle, make sure to keep the knees well covered with proper bike tights, no shorts until it's over 65. Make sure the saddle height is correct and the cleats have not moved, also keep the gearing light and spin until the pain goes away. I believe the test for the patellar irritation is the apprehension test performed while lying on your back--look it up and have a helper try it on you. 
the ice is also essential, just 20 mins on, then let it warm back up.

rottensquirrel · Mar 8, 2008

Doctor. I'm not sure I'm allowed in this thread but here goes. The advice given above is sound. If your pain did not precede the skiing injury it will likely get better within 7-10 days. If you were having pain prior to the skiing the time frame is more difficult to predict. Ice, rest, NSAIDS will help. You probably have bruising of the bursa and patella cartilage with Sx mimicking those of chondromalacia (MBannon). The bursa may remain irritated for a long time with sensitivity to kneeling etc (3peppers). It should not prevent training. Jroden's advice is good but I would stick to the pool for now, only freestyle. 
Patella apprehension testing is for patella instability which you do not seem to have the test will likely cause pain. 
You should seek advice for your doctor phobia. It could be hazardous to your health!

MBannon · Mar 8, 2008

It's the doctor bills I have a phobia of, because they surely are hazardous to my health. (I'm actually NOT complaining, I personally believe medical costs are as low as they can be in a litigious country with excellent technology but no mandated cost controls) 
See family doctor for referral to specialist, $200 
See specialist, get referral for MRI, $250 
Get MRI, $1,500 
Have MRI reviewed by specialist, $350 (annual deductible finally met!) 
Prescription - Rest, stretch, PT, more rest, ease back into training 
No, I'm not jaded or bitter. <img alt="roll_eyes.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/roll_eyes.gif"> Just broke.

hobey · Mar 8, 2008

<img alt="" src="http://bestsmileys.com/poking/2.gif" style="border:0px solid;"> 
I'm just sayin'.....

MBannon · Mar 8, 2008

Sayin' what? That you want to jab me in the side of the head with a stick? Why does every female have that same reaction???

hobey · Mar 8, 2008

I think you know what I'm talking about. <img alt="" src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2317657570_b394581985_m.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"> 
If your knees aren't worth that much, I don't know what else to say.

rottensquirrel · Mar 8, 2008

If you are on the hook for $2350 you might consider changing insurance policies, (if possible)

MBannon · Mar 8, 2008

Then I'd have to pay for it (employer-provided policy now). Have you seen what insurance rates have done this year? Insane. I'm seeing clients whose premiums have jumped 40% over a year ago, same coverage (sometimes worse). What are you guys seeing from the practitioner side? I bet the insurance companies are putting the squeeze on you, too.

jroden · Mar 8, 2008

Hey, you sound like a fellow member of the High Deductable health policy club. We have been doing it for a year now along with a HSA, our insurance was at $800 month, so we are trying this route, hopefully it will all work out cheaper. 
Maybe they have a home MRI machine we can buy.

3chilipeppers · Mar 8, 2008

Because he's not a DOCTOR!!

3chilipeppers · Mar 8, 2008

LOL!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!! Because females are not as stubborn as males, and we don't understand why you guys won't just go to the doctor. Sounds like you need a doctor in the family. My aunt is a doctor, a good friend (kids' godmother) is a resident in general surgery (for 3 more months), and my BIL is in med school. We're set! We also have great insurance (DH works for the state) with $25 copays. Can't you just go to a specialist without a referral? Try to find a plan where you can do that. You may not have the choice, though. We only have one choice now, and it's a PPO. SO glad I'm done having kids!

rottensquirrel · Mar 8, 2008

Health insurance is a bear. I am self-employed so I pay for my insurance and that of my employees. We have seen double digit increases in 4 of the last 5 years. That has necessitated changing the plan to have higher copays and lower premiums. On the flip side the insurance companies at best are holding even on what they pay physicians there are no adjustments for cost of living, inflation etc. I don't want to complain too much because I do make a good living but it isn't easy considering the educational loans my wife and I have. Bottomline I think you should avail yourself of the best plan your employer offers. High deductibles are a disincentive to seeking health care so I have to agree with the feminine advice above.

melistic · Mar 8, 2008

Taking a completely different approach than everyone else....<img alt="blush.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/blush.gif"> 
I'm wondering if you just really tightened up after the ski. 
If you do this... does it pull where it hurts? <a href="http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Quadriceps/Standing.html" target="_blank">http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Quadriceps/Standing.html</a> 
how bout this? more so if you lift the back foot off the mat or no? <a href="http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipFlexors/KneelingHipFlexor.html" target="_blank">http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipFle...HipFlexor.html</a> 
and how are your ankles after the boots?

Help with knee pain

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