Grindstone 100
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I'm sure the trail is typical Appalachian roots and rocks but I wanted to see what the elevation is and when I click on it, It take me to map of a marathon. Might you know the elevation gain and loss?<br><br>
I'm curious as to why this race is harder than Massanutten.
I'm curious as to why this race is harder than Massanutten.
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For starters it has a 6:00 PM start. Also more elevation gain.<br><br>
Harder than MMT is probably pretty subjective when it comes to VA and rocks over 100 miles.<br><br>
The Wild Oak Trail section is very steep and some sections go straight up. Also hitting Reddish Knob won't be a picnic either.
Harder than MMT is probably pretty subjective when it comes to VA and rocks over 100 miles.<br><br>
The Wild Oak Trail section is very steep and some sections go straight up. Also hitting Reddish Knob won't be a picnic either.
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I agree with JH that it's subjective. The original course was supposed to be a loop course closer to Wasatch--26,000 feet--but now it's an out-and-back with 23,000. I've only been on TWOT loop, so I can't say what the terrain is like throughout, but TWOT is much less rocky than Massanutten. And despite the difference in climb between Massanutten and Wasatch (about 6,500 feet), I find them pretty much equal in their difficulty.<br><br>
Also, it doesn't claim to be the toughest on the East Coast; it says "east of the 100th meridian." I suspect Barkley lies west of the 100th meridian. Also, four loops at TWOT during Cold TWOT is most likely tougher.
Also, it doesn't claim to be the toughest on the East Coast; it says "east of the 100th meridian." I suspect Barkley lies west of the 100th meridian. Also, four loops at TWOT during Cold TWOT is most likely tougher.
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Yes, but Cold TWOT is better than no TWOT at all. And I do prefer Hot TWOT--except, for some reason, I managed to last longer with Cold TWOT. Go figure.<br><br>
Unfortunately, living in NYC I don't have a car, so I haven't figured out what to do with my prize for finishing a loop: a bumper sticker that reads, "Honk if You Love TWOT."
Unfortunately, living in NYC I don't have a car, so I haven't figured out what to do with my prize for finishing a loop: a bumper sticker that reads, "Honk if You Love TWOT."
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as the moderator, i am not sure how to handle this thread <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br><br>
just kidding. I am bummed at the timing of this race, i wish it was a couple weeks later, i will not be recovered from the Tetons enough to tackle that race and i want to run Tussey Mountain. <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif">
just kidding. I am bummed at the timing of this race, i wish it was a couple weeks later, i will not be recovered from the Tetons enough to tackle that race and i want to run Tussey Mountain. <img alt="sad.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/sad.gif">
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I think I going to stay clear of the double entende. I nave a natural naughty streak that does not need prompting. <img alt="icon_salut.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_salut.gif"><br><br>
The 6 PM start is interesting and tried before at Kettle Moraine when it first started by Kevin Setness. It's a nice idea to run in the cooler part of the day and night but it also means you have to run with a light. Besides the issue of finding a light and backup to burn that long(there are many but just one more thing to contend with) it is still much slower going for everyone. I don't think most people appreciated the additional time on their feet and that trail is less sucky.<br><br>
Another interesting experiment.
The 6 PM start is interesting and tried before at Kettle Moraine when it first started by Kevin Setness. It's a nice idea to run in the cooler part of the day and night but it also means you have to run with a light. Besides the issue of finding a light and backup to burn that long(there are many but just one more thing to contend with) it is still much slower going for everyone. I don't think most people appreciated the additional time on their feet and that trail is less sucky.<br><br>
Another interesting experiment.
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The New England 100 and 200 Miler is also EAST of the 100th Meridian and based upon Beardobee's thoughts on the Grindstone Course, it sounds almost identical to the NE 100 Course... the only MAJOR difference is time of year.<br><br>
The NE100 is likely to have fresh snow and frigid streams on the course as well as the added headache of pretty much ALL of the leaves being down as winter begins to set in. Rugged trails, Steep STEEP straight ups and downs... You'll see for yourself in June oh bearded one..<br><br>
I understand that Clark Zealand and Horton are pro's at building difficult races... but I don't think ANYONE can claim Grindstone OR The NE 100 tougher until BOTH races are actually run. So.. to say, "It is supposed to be the hardest 100 on the East Coast." Is pretty premature.<br><br><br>
(Note: There is a Google earth course map on our website <a href="http://newenglandultras.com" target="_blank">http://newenglandultras.com</a>)
The NE100 is likely to have fresh snow and frigid streams on the course as well as the added headache of pretty much ALL of the leaves being down as winter begins to set in. Rugged trails, Steep STEEP straight ups and downs... You'll see for yourself in June oh bearded one..<br><br>
I understand that Clark Zealand and Horton are pro's at building difficult races... but I don't think ANYONE can claim Grindstone OR The NE 100 tougher until BOTH races are actually run. So.. to say, "It is supposed to be the hardest 100 on the East Coast." Is pretty premature.<br><br><br>
(Note: There is a Google earth course map on our website <a href="http://newenglandultras.com" target="_blank">http://newenglandultras.com</a>)
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They're each going to be very special in their own twisted way. <img alt="biggrin.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/biggrin.gif"><br><br>
That Google Earth map is absolutely incredible! I had never seen one before. It's a satellite-image based map with the course drawn over it showing aid stations, parking, and other details. You can zoom in and out like some other satellite map programs, but the best part is that you can change the elevation and angle of your perspective, so as to get a sense of the elevation in three dimensions. Very very cool. Every race should have one of these. Take the time to download the free software and check out the map, even if you have no intention of running this race.
That Google Earth map is absolutely incredible! I had never seen one before. It's a satellite-image based map with the course drawn over it showing aid stations, parking, and other details. You can zoom in and out like some other satellite map programs, but the best part is that you can change the elevation and angle of your perspective, so as to get a sense of the elevation in three dimensions. Very very cool. Every race should have one of these. Take the time to download the free software and check out the map, even if you have no intention of running this race.
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The more I play with this Google Map, the cooler I think it is. It's like a magical helicopter from space! I can zoom and fly around and follow the course...<br><br>
(oh, man. I'm screwed. The more I inspect the course, the more I want to run the 100... )
(oh, man. I'm screwed. The more I inspect the course, the more I want to run the 100... )
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Looks like the link was pointing to the wrong profile. Try this one:<br><br><a href="http://www.eco-xsports.com/grindstone.elevation.profile.php" target="_blank">http://www.eco-xsports.com/grindston...on.profile.php</a><br><br>
Hope that helps. I know someone who is running this as part of "The Beast Series" so I was interested to see this as well.
Hope that helps. I know someone who is running this as part of "The Beast Series" so I was interested to see this as well.
I am going to Gstone. I think this will be a great race, and being the inaugural edition, i expect it will fill up. i plan on running mmt also, if i get off the wait list. Congrats Brennan, Mike and all on your belmonte runs. sorry i missed you, i got knocked out by a serious flu.
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I've never run a 100, but I think it's a great idea. I think one of the ideas of the PM start is to make everyone run at night, even the front runners. The Coyote 2 Moon that was recently run did a similar thing, but also coupled it with a staggered start so that everyone hopefully finished within 4 hours of each other, with a target of 8 AM. That website states, "...your risk of DNF'ing is somewhat comparable across the whole field, not just the "back of the pack"ers".<br><br>
IMO, it takes what seems to be one of the harder things about running really long distance, i.e. running at night, and does two things. 1. makes everyone do it, 2. causes it to happen when you are less tired instead of more tired. Both of which seem to make it easier on the less talented, and harder on the more talented. It's always struck me as "unfair" (not really the right word, but you get my drift) that the less gifted/talented runners have to deal with more adversity during the course of a race like these.<br><br><br>
Just my $0.02. I'm way off from running 100, as much as I want to make Grindstone my first!
IMO, it takes what seems to be one of the harder things about running really long distance, i.e. running at night, and does two things. 1. makes everyone do it, 2. causes it to happen when you are less tired instead of more tired. Both of which seem to make it easier on the less talented, and harder on the more talented. It's always struck me as "unfair" (not really the right word, but you get my drift) that the less gifted/talented runners have to deal with more adversity during the course of a race like these.<br><br><br>
Just my $0.02. I'm way off from running 100, as much as I want to make Grindstone my first!
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Not to be facetious but you need to do one and then revisit #2. Whether it is run during the day or night, it is the same race for everyone so I agree with your #1. I'm not in agreement that one is less tired in the PM. First off it is not easy to alter your sleep pattern such that you can start rested at 6 PM. It's not as if you can will yourself to sleep during the day. That aside let me assure you that a race with very uneven footing such as GS, running in the dark is not fun. Regardless of the your light there are just too many shadows and everyone slows by some significant variable. You ahve to lift you feet higher or shorten your stride all because of the shadows. This is not easier on the less talented because you will be on your feet a hell of lot longer. This will mean many more hours and if less talented, I'm suggesting getting pulled, DNF or a very, very long ugly day. While it is true you can conserve some energy in the night that also means you get to finish in the heat of day when you are tired. I would mush prefer to chill during the day and finish in the dark when I'm tired.<br><br>
The more talented will still finish in front but simply slower. Neither start will level the the playing field but simply make the times across the board slower. The better runners will do just fine because of their talents. In fact I would go out on a limb and say the talented runners, even at a slower pace will have a better advantage in that they can do 80-90% in the cool evening and only a little in the heat.<br><br>
With a race that has a normal early morning start the speedy folks do all but the early hours in the heat since they finish before the sun goes down. Forward that by 12 hours and they are doing most it while cool and only a little daylight. I see the balance toward the faster folks and "unfairness" or more difficult time for the slower runners.<br><br>
I'll strongly suggest you not do GS as you first 100. Get some experience with an easier race first. There are simply too many variables in a 100 that you need to experience and starting with a race with this much elevation, in the dark, adding hours may not be your best inaugural try.
The more talented will still finish in front but simply slower. Neither start will level the the playing field but simply make the times across the board slower. The better runners will do just fine because of their talents. In fact I would go out on a limb and say the talented runners, even at a slower pace will have a better advantage in that they can do 80-90% in the cool evening and only a little in the heat.<br><br>
With a race that has a normal early morning start the speedy folks do all but the early hours in the heat since they finish before the sun goes down. Forward that by 12 hours and they are doing most it while cool and only a little daylight. I see the balance toward the faster folks and "unfairness" or more difficult time for the slower runners.<br><br>
I'll strongly suggest you not do GS as you first 100. Get some experience with an easier race first. There are simply too many variables in a 100 that you need to experience and starting with a race with this much elevation, in the dark, adding hours may not be your best inaugural try.
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I am not sure i would like an evening start. I am a morning person and HATE running in the evenings, which i do once a week with my running group. I think the only way i make it thru 100 milers, is that i started in the morning and the adrenaline keeps me going through the night. How would you train your sleep patterns for a race that starts that late? This should be interesting to watch unfold <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">
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Sorry about the flu, Mario. I was really hoping to see you at Bel Monte. I have little doubt you would have easily broken 10 hours there.<br><br>
You may be moving up the list soon at MMT. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around a goal there this year, and I may pull. Also, my knee has been bothering me since Bel Monte, and here I have Bear Mountain 50M in two weeks. ... I really don't want to struggle through the first half of the year with a nagging injury, so I may focus on Pittsfield Peaks in June and build off of there for Cascade Crest. I'll probably be looking for a fall 100 then; it may very well be Grindstone.
You may be moving up the list soon at MMT. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around a goal there this year, and I may pull. Also, my knee has been bothering me since Bel Monte, and here I have Bear Mountain 50M in two weeks. ... I really don't want to struggle through the first half of the year with a nagging injury, so I may focus on Pittsfield Peaks in June and build off of there for Cascade Crest. I'll probably be looking for a fall 100 then; it may very well be Grindstone.
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