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I wanted to share a recent experience and get comments on hydration. I'm a triathlete and have been using Accelerade/ErduroxR4 for during and recovery drinks, along with different brands of gels. Lately I have been bonking around 14-16 miles. I was chatting with some folks at the local running store and changed my run only training strategy to Gatorade Endurance and Thermolyte (sodium supplements). It worked out good for me and I hit my goal of 20 miles. So now I have some post run questions.<br><br>
The Gatorade Endurance and Accelerade are pretty much a push with Gatorade having a slight avantage. The difference is that Accelerade has 6.5g protien, that I think I want for the triathlons. What's the affect of protein for running?<br><br>
The Thermolyte is adding 900mg sodium/255mg Potassium per hour. Do I need to worry about sodium overkill? I'm going for my first marathon Jun 5th and looking at roughly 4000mg sodium from Thermolyte and<br>
(40oz/per hr)=22 servings x 200mg=4400mg sodium from Gatorade, plus what ever gels I use. The pace worked good for me at 20 miles.<br><br>
What are you folks doing?<br>
Thanks,<br>
George<br><img alt="surprised.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/surprised.gif">ops:
 

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Good Question George - I've done three marathons. (note the selection of words). None of the times are stellar (4:21 - 4:29 - thats HOURS).<br><br>
I've wondered about sodium tablets as I've heard they make a difference..<br><br>
I'm curious to see at which point taking sodium tablets play a role and when one should take them..<br><br>
satfix<br><i>gu is my friend</i>
 

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I often switch Sunny D for Gatorade at home. Sunny D has twice the glucose & sodium. Gatorade is the only thing I drink when on the road. For glucose replacement I use glucose tablets - purchased in the diabetic section of any pharmacy. They don't overpower your mouth with sweetness.
 

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I always include some protein in my pre-race meal. While it's not often called upon by the body until later in an endurance race, it's nice to know that there are some 'stores' there for the body to fuel itself. Post-race...I try to have a recovery drink with a 4:1 (carb/protein) ratio.<br><br>
If you are doing long distance triathlon, protein 'during' training and 'during' racing becomes more critical.<br><br>
Personally, for stand-alone running races and shorter distance tri's, I can typically get by with Gatorade and gels in these types of events without GI issues. If the day is extra hot, I suspect I could supplement my Gatorade mix with a bit of added sodium or tablets...but I haven't tested it yet. My BIL just completed a marathon and had serious cramping issues during and post-race...so, he is now 'testing' sodium tablets.<br><br>
With respect to what is best for you...unfortunately, it becomes a 'test in training' mentality and it sounds like you are already giving that a go. Here is a link to a site which discussed how best to determine sodium/fluid intake, but it still requires testing: <a href="http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition.html" target="_blank">http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition.html</a><br><br>
Also, I would recommend posting your question to Gordo Byrn's tri-forum. I'm sure you'll get some solid feedback there :<br><a href="http://www.coachgordo.com/forum2/upload/index.php" target="_blank">http://www.coachgordo.com/forum2/upload/index.php</a><br><br>
Good Luck in June - looking forward to the race report!
 

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I'm so dumb about all this stuff.<br><br>
I just run...drink what's there...if it's Powerade, I barf it up after a minute or so, if it's Ultima I barf at the sight of it.<br><br>
I take a gel sometimes in a half if I'm going faster than I have been lately.<br><br>
I take some Sharkies, or dried apricot pieces and a few glucos or dextrose tablets in races longer than a half.<br><br>
It all gets too complicated for me. I'm just a humble retired school principal. Maybe I need someone to look after me. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">
 

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I actually do the same. Whatever they have out there, I'm consuming. I do like to bring a gel or two with me to the longer races.....10 milers or more <img alt="icon_compress.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_compress.gif">
 

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For 10 or more miles I try and bring a gel pack or 2 and then take advantage of what the race offers. When it comes to hydrating during the race I have a tendnecy to take a cup of gatorade or whatever the drink is and a cup of water. I try and drink both as I run away from the aid station.<br><br>
my post race recovery drinking isnt very good. To many beers usually and not enough water.
 

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I'll be honest, I'm not an expert. Many others here are probably better equipped to answer this question than I am.<br><br>
That said, this is what works for me.<br><br>
During longer runs, I will bring my CamelBak with me. I'll carry Fierce Grape Gatorade, and will drink it every 2 miles.<br><br>
If I'm going to be running more than 10 miles, I'll take energy gels with me, usually Gu. I have found that the Gu containers are easier to open than PowerGels. Even better, I can safety pin them to the belt of my shorts, and open them by pulling the gel packet on the safety pin.<br><br>
During my 15.2 mile loop (one that I often do during training), I will take a Gu at mile 7. If I am going further than my 15.2 mile loop, I'll take enough gels to take one at mile 7 then another every 6 miles.<br><br>
It might not be perfect, but it works for me. Like just about anything in running, you have to find what works best for you.
 

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Until this past week...<br><br>
Water every two miles. That's it, that's all. After the run, some Gatorade and depending on the intensity one or two bottles of Boost (Ensure, whatever).<br><br>
As of this weekend I'm getting used to Ultima. Not as bad as people said it would be, but man does it fizz.
 

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Outdoors I will not drink anything until I am running for more than an hour. Indoors, or on longer outdoors runs I will take gatorade. On the TM I sip it every 5 min. It helps break the monotony of the TM.<br><br>
During my medical my dr (who said a few goofy things) told me to take only water unless I was going over 2 hrs or to glycogen depletion. She says you don't need the calories or the electrolytes for runs less than 2 hrs.
 

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I've been using gatorade, taking sips of it as I go along.<br><br>
I have tummy problems on runs longer than 2 hours, as in I feel yucky afterward and don't want to eat, even though I need to. I don't know if it's the running or the Gatorade.
 

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I don't bike, but run a bunch of marathons and stuff.<br><br>
I discovered that I manage sodium a little less well than most people. I actively manage it during races, just trying to use good judgement and add Succeed! capsules at the level I'll need.<br><br>
If the marathon serves Gatoraide and it's a cool day, or GEF up through a warm day, I'll just stick with that. I'll make sure that I know what they are serving and the sodium levels. Based on that and the temperature I'll adjust the rate that I pop pills.<br><br>
I think people are pretty variable in how well their bodies inherently manage sodium levels. The temperature and effort make a huge difference too. Any single number of sodium mg/hr is likely to be useless, as your needs change.<br><br>
We hear about 100 milers who have low sodium problems during the day, then problems with too much as it cools off at night. That's an obvious example.
 

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I drink gatorade, take succeed! e-caps, and clif shot blocks.
 

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Water, Lava Caps or Succeed. I've been experimenting with Succeed Amino on longer runs, and I can't complain.
 

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What exactly are "sodium problems?"<br><br>
I will drink any Gatorade available in races and use Gu's over 10 miles.<br><br>
EQ's Gu-pinning tip has worked great for me.
 

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I think if you are talking about Hippo's remark, running during the heat of the day, sweating, etc, you have too little sodium, but as it cools, and you continue to pound sodium caplets and gatorade, etc, you will have too much. Also, at ultras, there are a lot of salty foods served, as well as boiled potatoes dipped in raw salt.<br><br>
I had overdone it with sodium at a race and was up 8lbs. Yikes!
 

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This is very controversial but I think that a very high percentage of runners with leg cramps in the late miles of marathons are running low on sodium. A couple of marathons where it was a warm day and that served lower-sodium drinks had much worse carnage at mile 23-25 than cooler races or ones that serve higher sodium fluids.<br><br>
There are a lot of potential causes of muscle cramping, which is why this is controversial. But I sometimes wonder if problems due to low sodium may actually be as common as bonking in some races.<br><br>
I also suspect (but can't prove) that over-sodium problems are almost unique to ultras. I think that in marathons most of the runners are running too fast to take in that much stuff and are also probably clueless about the need to get sodium at all. If your entire intake is a couple of Gu packets and a bunch of water, the chance of getting too much sodium is basically zero.
 

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After my 1/2 marathon cramping issues, I'm going to start experimenting with electrolyte replacement. I just bought some Nuun tablets to try. I spoke with a running coach who said she also has trouble with electrolytes and cramping and suggested that I sweat it out a lot, and since I don't eat a lot of processed foods or add a lot of salt to my food, I probably could use more than some people. It's all a matter of experimenting in the end, it seems.<br><br>
The reason I got the Nuun tablets is that they have no sugar. I don't need the glucose on my "longer" runs at this point, but I do seem to need the sodium and other nutrients which Nuun is said to provide.
 

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Good thread going here.<br><br>
A couple comments, from my point of view.<br><br>
- it has helped me to consider "electolytes" and "energy (calories)" as two separate equations. Some products (such as Gatorade) provide an element of both electrolytes AND calories. Some products do not. In my observation, some athletes make an error in thinking that the two categories work mutually. This is not necessarily true.<br><br>
To survive the distance of a marathon (or longer), one must consume adequate amounts not only both electrolytes AND calories, but also fluids. More commentary below.<br><br>
In the marathon race, I try to keep it simple. The only fluid I consume is water, until the last 30 minutes, then I go to Gatorade. For electrolytes, I take one Suceed capsule per hour (weather dependant.) For energy, I take 3-4 gels (starting at 75 minutes, one gel every 30-35 minutes until race ends.)<br><br>
I have found that the sugar in Gatorade can spike my blood sugar level too high. While this is generally a good thing within the marathon race, the sugar crash that occurs sometimes will adversely effectly my energy level. My aim is to keep the energy constant, not on a roller-coaster.<br><br>
- Regarding energy stores (in the form of muscle and liver glycogen), the faster one runs, the faster these carbohydrates are exhausted. For most everyone, some sort of energy (carbohydrate) replacement is needed. The most common sources (in marathons) are a gel and/or energy drink such as Gatorade.<br><br>
For example, in my marathon race (approximate 3:10 duration) I require 300-400 calories to endure the distance ay my marathon race pace. I also require about 20 oz of water, per hour. For electrolytes, I use one Suceeed capsule per hour. That's it.<br><br>
- Protein, in my experience, is not required for marathons or 50k and less. (Events of 5 hours in duration or less.) Protein, is helpful immediately after an training event or race to help replentish losses and to kick-start the post-event recovery process. In events longer than 5 hours, I would consider consumption of some sort of protein. There are many forms of in-event protein consumables.<br><br>
In the final analysis, it always comes down to those "depends-on" variables. Everyone is different, and each race has different weather conditions. Generally, the hotter the weather, the more electrolytes and fluids are needed.<br><br>
That said I've seen many marathon runners, in the final miles when the going gets tough, abandon their hydration and nutrition plans. Cramping occurs from a lack of electrolytes and fluids being delivered to the muscles. I would encourage athletes to continue consuming fluids and such all the way to the end.<br><br>
What I am trying to say is, that electrolytes and energy (calories) should be considered separately and are not always mutual. Whew. A lot of ground to cover in this topic.
 

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JC - I drank powerade in my first marathon and barfed 9 times...but I finished!<br><br>
BTW - a good 4:1 ratio recovery drink is one of those Slim Fast drinks. They work wonders!
 
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