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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This might sound like a silly question, but DH just brought this up. Do you have to be an elite to win a race? What I mean is when there is prize money involved. My BIL says you do. I disagree, but I really don't know the rules, etc... Obviously, most winners will be elites, but can an AG competitor win a marathon?
 

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First person across the line, not by the chip, wins the race...AG or Elite. There are races where they give the elites a head start so you'll need to run that much faster.
 

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If you can over-come the corral handicap and break the tape first, you win; that's easy.<br><br>
That would be something to see, if a pro or a Team USA-Nike person started with the 9:00 milers [an hour or so behind the 'lites - because of travel troubles or what have you] and clocked a 2:03 wth no one noticing, because the tape had already been broken an hour ago. Imagine passing 5,000 people and that not being enough?
 

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I think it depends on the race, the sport, and the prize purse. I remember a discussion on Slowtwitch about this. A marathon - in fact most running races, it's as Hobey says. You're first across the line, you win the money.<br><br>
I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe that for triathlon, you have to have (or will need to have) a pro card to win money at races with a purse of more than a certain value. I believe this is a USAT rule, so different countries might have different rules. The logic behind it is that pros race for their living, and thus should be the ones with the chance to win the money. Whether an AG racer goes home with $500 after a race doesn't make or break him/her.
 

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I believe in USAT races, a non-elite can win, but won't get the prize purse - that goes to the first elite to cross the line.
 

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I was in a sprint that had an interesting twist. People who contacted the RD and requested an 'elite' start time went out first, followed by normal age groupers. One nice smart guy in the 35-39 did not start first, and quietly went on to win the race by just a few seconds. The second place guy started up front, and of course had no idea he needed to go faster. Plus, the older guy always had someone in front to chase down. Smart racing. Both played by the rules.<br><br>
The answer to the original question is 'depends' I have seen races where it is winner take all, and others (like Bannon pointed out) the specify 'certain rules and conditions apply'. Makes some sense both ways. As long as it is plainly stated. I bet there have been several times the money/prize went to theother guy and some harsh words were spoken.
 

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The 1/2 IM Distance race that I took part in in Belgium for the last 2 years has an Elite prize purse and a non Elite<br><br>
If you win the race as an Elite you get 1000 Euros (800 for second 700 for 3rd etc etc )<br>
If you win the overall race (or place) as an AGe Grouper you win 200 Euros 150 Euros 100 Euros etc etc ANd if you win your age group then you get 30 Euros<br><br>
This is listed in the race instructions fairly clear<br><br>
N
 

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Per <a href="http://rankings.usatriathlon.org/Rules_Officials/rules.htm" target="_blank">USAT rules</a>...
<blockquote></blockquote><i>An event with a minimum $5000.00 prize purse must limit the Elite division to athletes holding a USAT Elite License or an Elite license from an ITU member federation. All prize money is reserved for the Elite division.</i><br><br><i>Any participant who starts in an open, elite or other special wave shall be ineligible for age group awards and USAT national rankings.</i><br>
In most races of substance, the Elites start in their own wave and are therefore disqualified from Age Group competition. Conversely, Age Groupers are excluded from the prize money.<br><br>
In your average small hometown triathlon, the rules might be different and it's likely that whoever finishes with the fastest time, wins.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
O.K. So, essentially, BIL was right. He said whoever breaks the tape wins. Obviously, that COULD be an AGer, but more than likely it will be an elite since they start first. It came up because I was looking at a kids' triathlon's results from a few years ago, and the girl that won females ended up winning Danskin last year at the age of 14. Of course, she was AG, so the "winner" never knew until the chip times came out (the 14 year old finished hours later because she was near the very end of the waves). They made a big deal of it and interviewed the two women together. It was pretty neat. Of course, there was no money in that one, but that's how the conversation came up.<br><br>
So, the rules are different for difference races, but in big races, usually the first to break the tape wins. So, you really need to be an elite to win since they start first. I guess if you start running times faster than the winner, it's time to become an elite! <img alt="wink.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif"><br><br>
(Of course, I was not asking this question for myself -- I will never be CLOSE to winning a race! LOL)
 

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<br>
Oooops. Just re-read and saw you were asking about a <span style="text-decoration:underline;">marathon</span>. Slightly different answer then. The <a href="http://www.usatf.org/about/rules/2007/2007USATFRules.pdf" target="_blank">USATF Rules</a> make no special provisions for Elites and do not recognize "Chip Time" - it's your "Gun Time" that matters. Specifically, in Rule 245, paragraph 1:
<blockquote></blockquote><i>The order in which the athletes cross the finish line will be the official finish position.</i>
Paragraph 32 clarifies the timing:
<blockquote></blockquote><i>The official time shall be the time elapsed between the start of the watches or timing devices resulting from an appropriate start signal and the athlete reaching the finish line. However, the actual time elapsed between an athlete reaching the starting line and finish line can be made known to the athlete, but will not be considered as official time.</i>
Bottom line... no special treatment for Elites - first one across the finish line wins.
 

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Deelname aan het <b>Open Belgisch Kampioenschap</b> Triathlon Vlaanderen kost:<br>
- 75 euro indien u niet over een licentie beschikt;<br>
- 65 euro indien u over een licentie beschikt;<br>
- 5 euro extra indien u een championchip ( tijdsregistratie) wil huren;<br>
- 30 euro extra voor aankoop van een chip.<br><br>
Voor dit inschrijvingsbedrag bent u alvast verzekerd van een unieke triatlon ervaring, prima bevoorrading, een mooi aandenken aan uw deelname en <b>voor de finishers</b> nog een leuke verrassing. Misschien wordt u zelfs wel Belgisch Kampioen!<br><br><b>De eerste 200 inschrijvingen (ontvangen betalingen) krijgen een wielzak van het EK 2007 er bovenop!</b><br><br>
Onder <i>Registratie LD Triathlon</i> vindt u het inschrijvingsformulier.<br><br>
Opgelet! Indien u wenst deel te nemen als <b>elite atleet</b>, dient u een attest te bezorgen van uw federatie, dat uw status als <i>eliteatleet</i> bevestigt. Zonder dergelijk attest, wordt u ingedeeld bij de <b>age-groupers</b>. Alvast veel succes toegewenst.<br><br>
Deelname aan de <b>JFF happening</b> kost 8 euro. Nadat u de proef hebt beëindigd, bezorgen wij u alvast de nodige bevoorrading om te recupereren van de geleverde inspanning, en als het even meezit , nog een leuke herinnering.<br><br>
Onder <i>Registratie Just for fun</i> vindt u het inschrijvingsformulier.<br><br><br>
Clear as mud
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
No special treatment except they get to actually start when the gun goes off!! LOL<br><br>
I actually was interested in USATF and USAT rules (even though I didn't ask), so thanks! It's always good to know these things (not that I'm ever going to have to worry about it!)
 

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You've found your answer here. To add to that...<br><br>
Whether an athlete with a non-elite/non-pro status can take home money at a given race depends on the race and who it is sanctioned by. It's obvious that the first person to cross the finish line (or the person with the fastest time) will win the race, but it's quite possible, depending on the race, that that person will not be in the money, nor have a place on the podium. Triathlon seems to be more like that than running.<br><br>
As an example, on an airplane to my very first Ironman (IMWI), I happened to get seated next to an amazing athlete and person who was more than happy to give me tips and pointers and all the advice I could ever use. I soaked up every word he said because he was likeable, genuine, very forthcoming, and also had a 9:25 Ironman finish under his belt. During that conversation I asked if he was a Pro. He said no and explained why he would not turn Pro. And he also explained what it meant in certain races, most explicitly Ironman, of not turning Pro. Ironman Wisconsin 2006 came and went, and much to my surprise and great excitement, I discovered that my new friend came in 10th place overall with a healthy 9:42. But because he was an age grouper, he was not among the group of athletes who stood on stage when they called up the top 10 finishers, nor was he able to be a part of other awards. But he was able to reap benefit of being 2nd in age group and notch a Hawaii Qualifier, his stated goal for the race. I have since bumped into this guy several more times, to the point where we are becoming decent friends, where every single time we get more time than just hello, he tells me yet again how he gets shunned by so many races and groups because he is *just* a speedy age grouper.<br><br>
Another drawback for him is that because he is not a declared Pro, he also does not get to start in the wave with Pros in most races, mainly because they are in a separate group. This includes all Ironman events and many others. The problem there, for him, is that he is among the fastest swimmers in the field, where he usually has a Top 5 swim split over ALL athletes, so not starting with the Pros gives him nobody to draft off of, nobody of equal ability to push him, and when he's on the bike, he spends all of his time trying to catch up to the Pros.
 

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I Know that this is slightly off topic but when the pros start a race 1 or 2 minutes before the rest of the field do the organisers reset the race clock at the finish line<br><br>
I am thinking in particular of the IM races ( and specifically for Germany )<br><br>
If the pros start 2 minutes before me does that mean that I only have 15 hrs and 58 mins to complete the race rather than 16 hrs before the cut off ?<br><br>
Neil
 

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ANother question--how common is it to include the OA winner in AG? In my one and only tri, I placed 2nd in my AG. The woman who placed 1st was also the OA winner. In my running races, OA's were not inculded in AG.
 

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Neil, 2 years ago in Germany, the pros were just a few yards (meters, or metres) ahead of us AG goons in the water. We are talking 3 seconds of difference, max. When they really got close to starting, the pulled in a seperator and everyone really mixed.<br><br>
France had the pros in the middle on the beach, so we kind of had a flying V thing going for a minute.<br><br>
My experience with split start races, they just make sure they start follow-on waves at the correct time, then they (and you)know to add 5, 10, whatever minutes to the time.<br><br><br>
Oh, and forget the cut-off. You and I will be drinking beer watching others worry about that, while we tell war stories!
 
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