[Grizzly]

Newbie is up and seems okay, the rest are deader than a doornail.<br><br>
Is our new community that fickle? Was it just a very badly run migration? That's odd, because judging by all the emails I received it seemed that people at Active were on top of it. What they didn't do was handle the change well when things were finally up.<br><br>
Were we part of the problem? People having somewhere else to go? People already with one foot out the door?<br><br>
You can't tell me that one or two bad days in a forum would shut things down like that. If so, then we might have some worries coming our way if and when we have changes.<br><br>
I'm happy that Sue has the gang back together in a forum, but wonder where we're all going. I like that we are continuing to grow and offer more features. It means that our board is far far far more than the PRT, and that's something I think that the old timers always wished for.<br><br>
What can we learn? What can we do differently?

 

[satfix]

some things I think we've learned already and why we are growing.<br><br>
1. We are responsive to our users. We rarely do anything without telling our users. We make them apart of our decision process<br>
2. The ads that offended so many. I made SURE they weren't here<br>
3. Respect - even those who seem to push it - are treated with respect<br>
4. A broader offering - this place isn't a clique.. it's quickly becoming a site that has breadth and width -as our log comes on line, we'll have even a more powerful draw.<br><br>
Just a few of my lessons - I hope we're learning correctly!

 

[sierra]

I too really like the fact that we are drawing people here for the <i>running</i> forums. With the recent, continuing influx, it all seems to be people who are here for the running aspect of the site.<br><br>
THAT is what the draw is and what it should be. IMO the PRT is becoming more secondary and I like that. I think thats what will continue to draw people.<br><br>
I tend to think the Active fiasco was mostly due to lack of communication when they first opened it back up. The system didnt work right, and people had questions and werent getting any answers that werent canned answers that were posted in all the forums. People caught on to that very quickly and were offended by the lack of response and results.<br><br>
People also looked at Actives history and I think that colored their expectations, then when problems came up, it just confirmed their expectations. I think many people had one foot out the door when the transition happened. And yeah, that we were here, didnt help Active any. But I think we had and have a good reputation of responsiveness and thats why they came to us. (Which I think is a great thing that we are thought of that way)<br><br>
Thats one of the reasons that I work very hard to stay on top of new memberships and respond quickly when people have issues to get them resolved. From what I have seen and experienced, people really appreciate the personal attention to <i>their</i> concerns.<br><br>
I think that even though some people complain that we are moderated, they really appreciate the fact that there are some expectations here. And that we follow through on them and are consistent.<br><br>
As far as Sues forum, it is filling a niche that we dont provide. I think thats great for the people who want that. Its provides an option for people.<br><br>
For us, I want us to be a running site. And it seems thats whats happening. <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
I think we are doing it the right way, for us. The leadership from Rich has been perfect and I believe he will continue to lead us in the right direction.<br><br>
Just my opinion<br><br><img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">

 

[Grizzly]

I am so relieved that the running side of things has taken off. Not only does it give us credibility (and sustainability), it gives us more of a "full meal deal".<br><br>
And I wish Sue all the luck in the world.

 

[diablita]

I agree; it's nice to see much more activity on all of the running-related boards. And the PRT is still healthy, even if it's changed a little bit.<br><br>
I also want to touch on the mention of "communication" and "respect" in this thread. Active wasn't loved to begin with. But when they began to inform their user base of the changes, they showed no respect for the previous moderators of CR. They didn't inform them, didn't transition them, didn't care about them and this was communicated to the user base. And communities tend to be loyal.<br><br>
So add that to fees for plans that were previously free (heck, I found CR by way of the C25K program, and referred lots of friends to it over the years), the idea of a 'corporate buyout' and the migration glitches and I think you've got a recipe for loss.<br><br>
These new members (here and on Sue's site) were theirs to lose, more than ours to win.

 

[Hippo]

Active fell prey to a phenomenon I've seen from the inside: corporate arrogance.<br><br>
A corporate heirarchy, however small has the higher-ups telling everybody else what to do, and after a time it is felt that this is the natural order.<br><br>
But customers don't take orders. If you roll out the new thing which is awesome only for your bottom line and not for the customers, they leave in a thundering herd. Within the corporate structure there is a grace period: employees don't leave so quickly. I think that Active's near-monopoly in other areas may also blinded them to the possibility. "Well, they won't just all leave at once or anything..." <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"><br><br>
I think one of the risks we have here, part of the growth, is that we are starting to have multiple really different subcultures within KR; and by itself there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If we make little policy changes across the site that make sense in general, we may alienate one piece of us. I think also some groups may someday request changes that they all agree on but which P.O. another area. Just something to be careful for.

 

[merigayle]

I could not for the life of me stay logged into active, and even once i logged in, it took several log in attempts before i could post in the forum, and once i posted once, i was not guaranteed to stay logged in. OMG.<br><br>
I think the running log was a HUGE reason a lot of people got angry at active. I do not think a lot of people realized what would occur to their log and how not-seamless the transition was.<br><br>
Also, the active site is and always has been, very difficult to navigate through. I find it way too complicated to find what i am looking for on there, even if it is just a race to sign up for.<br><br>
Also, the censorship there was ridiculous. It was funny that if someone typed damn, **** would show up. Or even fart!!?!?! The new site is ugly too!<br><br>
However, i was shocked people so readily up and ran.<br><br>
And as far as Sue's site is concerned, i think it is a good balance to the PRT, because I surely did not want to see CH2 here and it was looking like it was heading that way. And for Grizz's mental well being, it will be easier to moderate now. I know it was a bit overwhelming during the CR/Active transition.

 

[hally]

Here is what I pasted in response to Dave's latest post, sorry for the formatting, their editor sucks.<br><br>
"The Active folks sent email to the mods saying we were going to be given advance access so we could give feedback. We call that UAT in technology (user acceptance testing) Next would be QA, QualityAssurance. That never happened. Instead they relied on the current community to put up with the bugs and poor layout. Bad move.You don't roll out a release without proper testing and user testing is the most important part. Had this been a spur of the moment thing we might be more understanding but this move has been in the works for quite some time now . We're talking a large corporation here in Active. Shame on whoever was leading this project and whoever approved it. Unfortunately the result is that most of the users have found other, more user friendly places to post."<br><br>
Also as was mentioned the log issue, login issues, advertisements and general dislike of Active to begin with.<br><br><br>
And this from Egret,<br>
" I don't know why we think we matter this much.<br><br>
We are a flux commodity. The ebb and flow in our social network has<br>
been forced here, but it's really just a ripple in the big picture for<br>
Active.com. Users come and go from and to sites all the time and the<br>
spaces unhappy customers leave here will fill in again with the tide.<br>
In a virtual world, we all boil down to user traffic on a server,<br>
little blinking lights. The users who stay will adjust to the interface<br>
and new users will fill in the flocks pretty seamlessly.<br><br>
We're not individuals; we're potential consumers of the advertisers'<br>
products. Sure, we're making noise now and Active.com could do well by<br>
making some user interface changes and modifying the log program to be<br>
a better end use product, but how much does it really matter to them?<br>
Do the few irate CoolRunners make a significant difference to their<br>
financial reports?<br><br>
I''d say the whole effect is not more than a minor blip that was probably already foreseen in their takeover forecast.<br><br>
It's really all just 'forward progression', the big power machines<br>
harvesting the almighty dollar with the new social marketing scheme."<br><br>
Barb

 

[altoids]

Just to bring in a different thought: I would really love to see more activity in "The Starting Gate". What I've noticed is that someone will show up there, and quickly be directed to other forums (age group, race reports, Post Race Tent, etc).<br><br>
I am thinking that our current group of users (overall) have been running for a while, and arrived here because of past experience with other running forums.<br><br>
How do we get more newbies? And encourage them to hang out in that forum for a while?<br><br>
(Maybe this should be a different thread)

 

[diablita]

Altoids, that's a great question! How about links in the Training Programs forum directing the 5K Training Program users know about the Starting Gate?<br><br>
Could Craigslist also be used somehow to get the word out? Can we write in to the editors of some running magazines to let them know about the great, free resources here?

 

[Liam3494]

In answer to the question as why Active Failed the community, most has been said already. I particularly feel bitter about the way things have gone. Whilst I didn't know "Dave" from CR, I have met and discussed issues with Kevin over the years, and most will know that I was one of the very select few who had met Josh Clarke, and played a major part in the Couch to 5K plan.<br><br>
I know why Kick and CR were successful, and have been involved since the very beginning, and the way in which Active have railroaded many has stuck in the throat. First they started trying to charge for the C25K plan (then backtracked after a string of emails from myself, and others). Then they emailed us moderators and promised that everything would be rosy - surprise, surprise they then cut us out of the loop - I have never actually been told I am surplus to requirements, but if I am a Moderator, I have no idea of what I am supposed to do......<br><br>
Then the issue of the Training Log... This to me was the crux of the matter. Here we had a decent, working log, easy to use, and easy to get information relevant to our runs. Like many I had information dating back to the 90's in mine. OK, I backed mine up, and had all teh info, but the NEW Active Log is terrible, and impossible to use - plus it gives so little information that is relevant. This was a straw that broke many a back.<br><br>
Disillusionment with Active per se was always there, then the log being crap, and like most consumers, we acted and moved of our own accord. Maybe because we were here, and Running Ahead had a decent Running Log, and then Sue set up her Clubhouse, it made it easy for people to give up - But that's life.<br><br>
The big thing to learn is communication and not becoming distant from the people that support the Community - funny that comunication and community share the same root - commune - maybe something in that <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif"> -<br><br>
Active bought out Cool Running for two reasons - One to buy the community, the numbers, us, so that they could cross sell - They maybe misjudged the community - But secondly, they bought the site to get rid of the competition = Free sites with a large user base are dangerous to corporate bodies, as we congregate here and don't view the Active adverts - So, snuff out the competition, force people to use Active and all teh spin offs to make money for them - Oh well, as I say, maybe they misjudges us, or maybe, they just couldn't care less.<br><br>
Bottom line - To ensure we develop positively we need to focus on key areas that made CR/Kick successful - Our new C25K Plan needs to be promoted as New Runners come on board, we need to ensure the Running Log is robust, and we need to continue to be responsive to the community as it develops and stregthens.<br><br>
My 2 cents worth -<br><br>
Happy New Year to everyone <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">