"Did you know that you have rocks in your head" - OR - Why I love socialized medicine.

Grizzly · May 26, 2011

So the missus has been having intense bouts of vertigo for the last few days. We thought it might have been labyrinthitis, but when I mentioned it in passing to my physio yesterday he quizzed me and told me to call a colleague of his to arrange an appointment.
 
I got one for yesterday evening and the missus and I went to see another physio who examined her and said that he'd rather have an MD's opinion since it wasn't a straightforward case. He arranged for us to meet a colleague today, and they both met with us... and determined that it was indeed something called Benign Positional Vertigo.
 
The doctor sat in and watched as the physio did a set of manipulations - he had my wife lie on her back with her head lowered and tilted 45 degrees to one side, tapped her behind the ear for 3 minutes and then did the same with her head turned the other way. He then had her turn her body so that it was on one side and had her head (still lowered) facing the floor at a 45 degree angle. Tapped her behind the ear and then sat her up. Dizziness gone, or mostly gone.
 
What happened? Well, apparently there are crystals in your inner ear. (No, really) that can become dislodged and migrate to the wrong location, tripping the sensors that control balance. The maneuvers were to force them back into the proper canal.
 
The doctor had never seen this done before. The physio visit last night cost us 70 bucks, the doctor's visit and the physio today - nothing. Today they spent about an hour with us. 
 
My wife gets to sleep in a chair for the next couple of nights... and we get to see the physio and doctor for a follow up next week. 
 
In the meantime the vertigo and nausea are mostly gone. Bizarre but true.

willrun4chocolate · May 26, 2011

Wonderful, I thought I loved my Physio for fixing my arm, but now I think I love the profession for fixing Mrs. Grizzly.

Tech Tee · May 26, 2011

That's great that Mrs. Grizz got things fixed up, but I'm not sure what that has to do with socialized medicine. 
Also, what's a Physio?

Grizzly · May 26, 2011

Physiotherapist. 
 
The Socialized medicine part was the free part of it all, the fact that she spent upwards of an hour with the missus... and the dispelling of the "Oh you poor canajuns have to wait years to see a doctor." Just not true.

fox-runr · May 26, 2011

Wow...there is such a thing!!! I got the same diagnosis 11 years ago...but they sent me home. I was literally hanging onto to walls to get around. The doc said it was from " old age". The symptoms eventually went away. A year later, same thing. at 36.. I didn't feel old and year after year I get these symptoms either in late May or June. 
I was running in a half marathon recently were I passed a really good runner at mile 9. I never saw here cross the finish line. later she spoke to me and said she got dizzy if she moved her head, and when I passed her, she turned her head, and ended up vomiting. I encouraged her to see a doctor. a few weeks later, I see her at a race, and she says she has crystals in her eyes. I asked her how old she was. 36. 
Good to know that the diagnosis exists, now if the docs around here knew how to treat it. 
I just take allergy meeds when I get it....sometimes it helps and sometimes not. It's awfully hard stopping and getting off a bike with vertigo.

Tech Tee · May 26, 2011

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000873" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Grizzly <a href="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000873"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a> Physiotherapist. 
 
The Socialized medicine part was the free part of it all, the fact that she spent upwards of an hour with the missus... and the dispelling of the "Oh you poor canajuns have to wait years to see a doctor." Just not true.
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Still, don't know what a Physiotherapist is. 
Many times down here, you don't see a doctor, you see a PA - Physician's Assistiant. i wonder if it's the same thing. The PA would escalate the situation if he/she thought it was warranted. 
Regarding the socialized medicine part. Yes, down here, if you had insurance, you would have to pay a "co-pay", but I think you would get the same level of service. 
If you were on Medicare...I don't know, since I'm not on Medicare. I would think probably not, but, really, I don't know, and I'm not interested in finding out personally either, if you know what i mean,

Grizzly · May 26, 2011

Tech, where are you? Here's a definition of a PT:
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 Physiotherapy is medical treatment for problems of the joints, muscles, or nerves, which involves doing exercises or having part of your body massaged or warmed. 
 
I know physiotherapists who live and work in the States, I know this isn't just a Canadian profession. I've been seeing a PT for years - helped out with Plantar Fasciitis, and is currently helping with my shoulder rehab.
 
Madame Fox: Here's a description of what they did:<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epley_maneuver" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epley_maneuver</a>
 
 
 
 
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Tech Tee · May 26, 2011

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000900" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Grizzly <a href="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000900"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a> Tech, where are you? Here's a definition of a PT:
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<div class="ldcomIN">
 Physiotherapy is medical treatment for problems of the joints, muscles, or nerves, which involves doing exercises or having part of your body massaged or warmed. 
 
I know physiotherapists who live and work in the States, I know this isn't just a Canadian profession. I've been seeing a PT for years - helped out with Plantar Fasciitis, and is currently helping with my shoulder rehab.
 
Madame Fox: Here's a description of what they did:<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epley_maneuver" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epley_maneuver</a>
 
 
 
 
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OK. Then Pysiotherapist is not the same as a PA. From your post, I was thinking that a PT was a "PA". 
Yeah, I'm in the States. New Jersey. From your description, I would think that a PT is someone you go to AFTER a DR has made a diagnosis. More of a therapy thing. For example, when I had a Baker's Cyst and knee issues a few years back, I went to an Orthopedist (still a doctor, although a specialist, so it was through regular medical insurance) and he gave me a brace for my knee (paid for by insurance), and then referred me to an physical therapist (paid for). I went to them twice. They taught me some stuff, and that was that. I spent over 1/2 hour with the initial doc (which was great, I figured it would be 10 minutes at the most), and hours with the PT. 
By the way, if I ever went back to the PT *WITH THE SAME* issue, it would NOT be paid for. I understand why. They aren't going to teach you anything new.

Grizzly · May 26, 2011

Physiotherapist = physical therapist.

Tech Tee · May 26, 2011

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000903" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Grizzly <a href="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000903"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a> Physiotherapist = physical therapist.
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So not a person with an MD (at least down here). Here's the difference. 
With *MY* insurance, I could not just go to these people. I would have to be referred to them by an MD. I don't think this is a bad thing. Because, in the real world, a Dr. would decide if you need to go to one or not (forget for the moment that a Dr. may or may not refer you to one or not "just because"). 
Also, people do not usually go to Physical Therapists on their own. Or, at least, I don't. Because of the above. it would not be paid for. 
HOWEVER...some people may, and also, would you consider a personal trainer to have the same ability/qualifications of a Physical Therapist? Then, of course, it would not be paid for. 
And, also, of course, when I say "paid for", that also is different for every provider (health insurance provider). 
Yeah, I'm lucky in that regard (as are most Americans). I work for a company that provides pretty darn decent health care. (Some Americans do, some Americans do not). However, I dont' want to turn this thread into an Obamacare debate.

fox-runr · May 26, 2011

My MD wanted to give me injections for piriformis 5 years ago. I refused, and he referred me to PTinstead. I had 2 visits to show me some core exercises...as he determined that my upper and lower body were very strong, but they couldn't work together. 
Anyway, my insurance has a rider on my entire back because of that MD suggesting injections. Now I have to have my docs be very careful not to say that I am being seen for "back pain". So I can get things paid for. For instance, my urologist made sure just to state "patient comes in with kidney stones" rather that " patient comes in complaining of back pain"... Eventhough he had no idea I had the stones until after I had the CT. this is what sucks about our system....worrying on how you can get treated more than trying to figure out what is wrong.

Tech Tee · May 26, 2011

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000924" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by fox-runr <a href="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000924"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a> 
My MD wanted to give me injections for piriformis 5 years ago. I refused, and he referred me to PTinstead. I had 2 visits to show me some core exercises...as he determined that my upper and lower body were very strong, but they couldn't work together. 
Anyway, my insurance has a rider on my entire back because of that MD suggesting injections. Now I have to have my docs be very careful not to say that I am being seen for "back pain". So I can get things paid for. For instance, my urologist made sure just to state "patient comes in with kidney stones" rather that " patient comes in complaining of back pain"... Eventhough he had no idea I had the stones until after I had the CT. this is what sucks about our system....worrying on how you can get treated more than trying to figure out what is wrong.</div>
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I hear ya. It's a shame that your MD made that recommendation, and you didn't take it, and it's still "haunting" you. 
DW had back pain a few years back, went to therapy for several (many) weeks, and can not go again (well, can't go and get it paid for) for the same issue anymore. I actually understand that. There is nothing, technically, that they can do/teach her. By the way, she eventually had the steroidal epidural injections, and it made things wonderful. And she can get them again, if she ever needed them (that was 8 years ago). 
With regard to back pain/kidney stones. Not sure if that's bad or not. From their (the insurance company) standpoint, why should they pay for something that you can do on your own (vs. of course, a kidney stone, which you can't do on your own)? 
And, as for it being "our system", well, I'm not saying its right or wrong, but, it's dependent on your provider. Some may pay for it, some may not. 
And, yes, I know that a lot of times you don't have a choice on your provider. I do. Actually, I can pick three different providers, and within them, several different plans. And, DW can as well. We have to sit down each year and see who has the better coverage/cost. And I see this as a good thing. We have a choice, and we have to intelligently sit down and figure what we can afford, and how much we are willing to pay for. And this will proibably change as we age. 
And, also. Yes, I know. Not everyone has this flexibility. And not everyone even has this option/choice at all.

kerfwango · May 26, 2011

Canadian doctors work for free?

Captain · May 26, 2011

Not a fun thing to experience. I found this product online that helped me a great deal. You can do all manipulations by yourself. <a href="http://www.dizzyfix.com" target="_blank">www.dizzyfix.com</a> 
I had a 5 week wait otherwise to see doctor, so that myth is still a fact and was close to going states side until I fixed it myself.

Grizzly · May 26, 2011

Kerf, no. Docs are covered under our Alberta Health Insurance - a single payer system. PT's are sometimes covered under that at the gubmint's discretion, usually for accident rehabilitiation or Work-related injuries. This PT wasn't free, had charged for our first visit but sat in with the MD on the exam yesterday and did his carnival trick for free.

Tech Tee · May 26, 2011

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000955" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Captain <a href="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000955"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a> Not a fun thing to experience. I found this product online that helped me a great deal. You can do all manipulations by yourself. <a href="http://www.dizzyfix.com" target="_blank">www.dizzyfix.com</a> 
I had a 5 week wait otherwise to see doctor, so that myth is still a fact and was close to going states side until I fixed it myself. 
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See, that's the thing. For every "good" experience in Canada, there are bad ones too. And, depending on which side of the fence you sit politically, the experience gets pushed to the forefront. (I would guess) 
Lefites will espouse Grizz's experience. Righties will point out all the issues that the Captain has had. 
Not living in Canada, I can't really comment objectively, but, I would guess that it's a wash. 
I would guess that it's no better and no worse than the medical care in the US, *IF* (and that's a big if) You have insurance. If you live in the US and do not have insurance, well, that's a different issue. 
Let's look at some interesting numbers, for me, at least. 
I, as an employee, for my company, who has decent (although not awesome) medical/dental coverage, pay myself, about $400/month for my family. My company pays a shade over $14K a year. Yeah, so I'm paying close to $5000 a year for health care. (and, by the way, there are places to work that pay NOTHING for health care, but I don't want to get into that argument) 
Do I and my family REALLY use $19,000 of health care a year? No. Of course not. At the moment. But, that's why it's insurance I guess. Yeah, maybe when the kids were born it got near that in the years that they were born. But now, no. But you never know. 
After the kids move out, will we use that much? No. Not in the beginning, but as we get older, probably. 
Now, a question is, the $5K I pay, and the $14K my employer pays...if we have some type of universal health care down here, and no one paid specifically, and it came out of your taxes (which would go up, of course), would the numbers be all that different? 
I think not. but, the real issue is, there are lots of people working at McDonalds and stuff who don't have any insurance. And, to stir the pot and muddle things even more, ..., I hear people complain, "Oh, I have this $200 dental bill and I don't have insurnace", well, OK. You don't. That's a one time deal. But you know what? I DO have insurance, and I pay $5000 a year for it. Break it down. I pay more than that for one month then your one time dental bill. 
Shit. I really didn't want this to turn into a healthcare debate.

yar · May 27, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Captain <a href="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2000955"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> Not a fun thing to experience. I found this product online that helped me a great deal. You can do all manipulations by yourself. <a href="http://www.dizzyfix.com" target="_blank">www.dizzyfix.com</a> 
I had a 5 week wait otherwise to see doctor, so that myth is still a fact and was close to going states side until I fixed it myself. 
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I'm coming close to the end of a 3-week wait to see an ortho (I'm hoping the rest has cured me and I can cancel - find out this weekend when I start running again). I've had to wait well over a month to see a new cardio - and even then, I only saw his nurse practitioner. It took me about 4 appointments to finally see the MD. So don't go too sour on Canada - you could be here in Texas.
 
yar

Grizzly · May 27, 2011

And people keep referring to Canada's health care system. Actually health care is a provincial responsibility mandated by the Federal government. Varioius provinces have more struggles with their particular administration of health care. Albertans like to complain but I am very satisfied. I would not be so satisfied if I lived in Quebec.

merigayle · May 27, 2011

there are exercises to do at home to keep the crystals aligned, basically doing what they did in office to your DW at home, i did not click on the dizzy fix link, but it is probably the same thing.
 
FoxRunr-- cannot believe you were not diagnosed. This is a diagnosis i see probably once a month in my office, it is very common and very easy to fix, though very few people do the maneuver and finding someone who does the maneuver can be the harder part.

fox-runr · May 27, 2011

<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2001091" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Grizzly <a href="/forum/thread/73981/did-you-know-that-you-have-rocks-in-your-head-or-why-i-love-socialized-medicine#post_2001091"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a> And people keep referring to Canada's health care system. Actually health care is a provincial responsibility mandated by the Federal government. Varioius provinces have more struggles with their particular administration of health care. Albertans like to complain but I am very satisfied. I would not be so satisfied if I lived in Quebec.
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Don't you rich Albertans subsidize the other provinces???? 
I went to a walk-in in Ottawa..it was a one man show..that doc cranked them in and out. also have 2 friends from Ottawa that eventually came stateside for back surgery, because they were on pain meeds for over 2 years!!! Heck for me, all I needed was the drugs...so it worked out good. For some reason, I can't get script for Ambien, but I can for benzos and vicodin here in the states. 
Happy to say I benzo free for over 3 months now...the stuff is nasty...I had psychological episodes from withdrawal (agoraphobia). I still hate malls though

"Did you know that you have rocks in your head" - OR - Why I love socialized medicine.

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