Cyclocross vs Mountain Bikes and offroad handling

pcsronbo · Aug 22, 2011

So I'm going to make an assumption that the mountain bikes are going to handle better in the muck, I know with shocks they will deal with big-azz-rocks and trees better, and the Cross bike will dominate in the semi flats.
 
But in the muddy messy icky stuff is a Mtb that much better?
 
Until today I've not really had any issues, but I went out and got 1:10 offroad and managed to build up maybe 30lbs of mud laced with sticks, rocks, and other stuff. My shifting went to hell, my braking suffered (but was easily cleared) and I dropped a chain 3 (recovered it 2x). Well that's never happened before. Obviously it isn't right, but is that normal? Mtb going to be any better in those sloppy conditions?
 
My goal here is to get my handling improved so I don't suck as bad come Cross season. Then next year hit some Xterras. I've been debating getting a Mtb, but really since Cross is this year and Mtb is next... was kinda wondering about just putting that purchase off.
 
Thoughts?

MBannon · Aug 22, 2011

A mountain bike will definitely handle the mud better, mostly thanks to the wider tires. The lower gearing can sometimes help, too, though I find it usually works better to just brute force your way through mud or sand - use too low a gear and you slow down too much and fall over sideways.
 
You could probably pick up a "throwaway" mountain bike on Craigslist for a few hundred bucks. Try it out for the season, re-sell it for half what you paid, then move up to a "real" bike after you've thoroughly caught the bug.

niemsco · Aug 22, 2011

Are you doing the Chicago cyclocross cup series?

pcsronbo · Aug 23, 2011

Yeah Scott, at least 2-3. Carpentersville for sure, rest I will go with my groove.
 
Have been thinking about getting a cheapo mtb, maybe get one from LBS and then sell it back if I upgrade. They already said they'd take my cross bike in trade, but I think I'd rather keep it and Get a Mtb too and try it. I really dig getting out there. 10miles in 1 hour is as much work as 2-3 on the roads

jroden · Aug 24, 2011

tire size and mud clearance are key in that situation and in general the mtb will work better with the larger contact patch. any bike ridden in the mud will get wrecked pretty fast, seems like a 1:1 ratio of riding time to repair and washing time.
 
My favorite training bike for the woods is my single speed rigid 29er mtb, just hose it off and put it away

pcsronbo · Sep 5, 2011

Was very interesting to ride yesterday. I came in pretty fresh and hit an 2.6mile loop in 13min. Prior best, 18. Fairly technical.
 
Then I did a 3.7 mile loop in 14:30, again that was a prior best of 18. much easier loop.
Reversed the loop and it was around 18, prior of 18ish (19maybe).
 
So clearly the more technical, the more the mountain bike helped over the cross bike. MTB was a hell of a lot easier to clean too.
 
rides like a different beast. I have not gotten used to the fact I can roll right over a 6-8in log without even thinking about it. I'm sure a bigger one too if I actually worked it.
 
So when do you lock out the shocks and when don't you? and why?

jroden · Sep 5, 2011

lock the shock on extended climbs, dirt roads or when it's not very technical so it doesn't bob. Most shocks will blow off if you hit them hard when locked out, so that can save you from a bit hit. I ride a rigid carbon fork on some pretty technical stuff and go fairly fast, I'm surprised how well it goes.

Yo Sake · Sep 6, 2011

Glad to hear you enjoyed your new bike!! It will be fun to see you at Ft. Custer next May! Are you going to try any mtb races this fall? They often offer different # of laps depending on your category ( beginner, sport, etc). Just like anything else, the best way to learn is just to dive in!

pcsronbo · Sep 6, 2011

Interesting idea Yosh, I hadn't considered that. I do intend to do some Xterra next year
 
Right now I've not had any racing mojo. Actually, day to day my mojo is up and down, so I've been staying low key and having fun - which is what I should be doing I guess, although I feel like a friggin slacker. I'll look around, that might be something to get the mojo going. or maybe I just need time post IM. People keep telling me "it's only 2 months". Well shit, I thought I'd be back 1 month after. Guess not!

pcsronbo · Sep 6, 2011

blow off I assume means the lock goes out and you get the shock of you nail something big?
 
I suspect in time I will be able to handle a rigid fork, but right now I have a serious skills deficit. I'm like 6 hours into my Mtb career and I am already seeing massive improvements, but I'm still a massive wuss when it comes to a lot of it. Something that time will cure as I figure out what I can and cannot do with the given bike and the varying terrain types. I find it highly interesting though as the every shifting terrain adds a whole new element. It's not just pedal your ass off, it's pedal your ass off + pay attention so you don't go SPLAT into a tree or a rock or whatever. Good fun. Maybe soon I'll actually find a real MTB course. Right now it's horse trails and stuff, some of it is well groomed, so I'm really just starting on the bunny hill of MTB. But I'm getting confident on those, so I'll figure out where to find some more options. I know there is some great stuff about 90min north - but that's too much driving for a 1-2hour casual ride. Maybe next year. 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by jroden <a href="/t/74939/cyclocross-vs-mountain-bikes-and-offroad-handling#post_2012355"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> lock the shock on extended climbs, dirt roads or when it's not very technical so it doesn't bob. Most shocks will blow off if you hit them hard when locked out, so that can save you from a bit hit. I ride a rigid carbon fork on some pretty technical stuff and go fairly fast, I'm surprised how well it goes.
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Yo Sake · Sep 9, 2011

Did you talk to LBS about trails nearby? If they sell a decent level MTB (like yours), I have to assume there are (relatively speaking) *real* trails nearby to ride and enjoy the *real* mtb. Closest one being 90min., that would be too bad. What I found out pretty amazing about mtbking is how much technique improves your time. Forget about the aerobic or anaerobic capacity for a moment. And take typical mid-west single tracks (not a huge long uphills or downhills, but more of lots of rollers and twisters). If you know how to ride downhills and twisty turns fast enough without kissing trees or ground, you can take the momentum to go half way up the next hill. and repeat. Braking downhills/twisty turns lose so much speed and getting back up the speed to tackle the next hill is twice as hard. I am sure once you get to the certain level of technique, then your engine size matters more. Right now for me, how well I can flow in and out of turns and up and down gives me a speedy ride or not. Not so much of huffing and puffing of 'riding' per se. Consequently I enjoy taking my mtb when my legs are tired from running. 
 
If I remember correctly you have in-laws in IN? Make sure to take your bike - they have some nice trails! 
 
We need more off-road riders on the board! Who is next to join?!!! <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">

jroden · Sep 9, 2011

Ron, you are correct, when the fork is locked if you plow into something it will unlock and take the hit. 
 
The trick with mtb is to look where you are going, pick the best line the look to the next turn while having confidence you can ride the line without having to stare at it the whole time. Trying to ride in the woods with your focus on the trail 6 feet in front of you leads to too much flow coming at you at once. Make it more of a slideshow and less of a video, like riding a bunch of 20 foot sections one after another rather than a continuous flow of trail. If that makes sense.
 
This time of year, selecting a grippy tire and running lower pressure really helps keep you off the ground.

pcsronbo · Sep 9, 2011

2 good suggestions. DW would love a trip to her hometown, I should do that before ground freezes. And I will email LBS owner. I am just about ready to work up to some bigger trails, so if I can find some close that would rock. Great thoughts thanks!

jroden · Sep 13, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Yo Sake <a href="/t/74939/cyclocross-vs-mountain-bikes-and-offroad-handling#post_2012754"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> Did you talk to LBS about trails nearby? If they sell a decent level MTB (like yours), I have to assume there are (relatively speaking) *real* trails nearby to ride and enjoy the *real* mtb. Closest one being 90min., that would be too bad. What I found out pretty amazing about mtbking is how much technique improves your time. Forget about the aerobic or anaerobic capacity for a moment. And take typical mid-west single tracks (not a huge long uphills or downhills, but more of lots of rollers and twisters). If you know how to ride downhills and twisty turns fast enough without kissing trees or ground, you can take the momentum to go half way up the next hill. and repeat. Braking downhills/twisty turns lose so much speed and getting back up the speed to tackle the next hill is twice as hard. I am sure once you get to the certain level of technique, then your engine size matters more. Right now for me, how well I can flow in and out of turns and up and down gives me a speedy ride or not. Not so much of huffing and puffing of 'riding' per se. Consequently I enjoy taking my mtb when my legs are tired from running. 
 
If I remember correctly you have in-laws in IN? Make sure to take your bike - they have some nice trails! 
 
We need more off-road riders on the board! Who is next to join?!!! <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif">
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I run a weekly cyclocross practice and we take turns apart and really examine how to change the apex and where to brake and stand the bike up. It exactly the same in the woods, except you are turning around a tree. If there is an organized cyclocross practice in your are, check it out. We get a lot of MTB riders and I design the sessions with built in shortcuts for the slower riders and penalty loops (or pushups) for the faster ones so we stay together. three months of that and you can ride your bike through the eye of a needle

pcsronbo · Sep 13, 2011

yeah I found one group, they meet on Tuesday night's - and that is boyscout night. So I'm gonna have to get a hall pass for that one. But I'm gonna go as many times as I can. (Good thing boy scouts you CAN drop and run, Cub scouts you stay. Just need to talk DW into it)

Yo Sake · Sep 13, 2011

Jr, I have two girl friends who are trying to convince me to show up a practice in Ann Arbor telling me I would LOVE it. I'm thinking about it this Thurs I I can make it. Not too excited about seeing a photo of riders carrying their bike on a huge hill... I was going to show up at a race byt they highly suggested to come to a clinic. I'm not well- coordinated and flying mount/dismount practice they talk about reminds me of gymnastics class... 
Will see and report back.

pcsronbo · Sep 13, 2011

DO IT! Yosh, you've got a lot of the skills already.

jroden · Sep 13, 2011

i have novice riders show up every week.
i'm not sure if you will be able to see this video, it's of our evening practice. we get 30 people when the weather is nice:
 
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1549648254031" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1549648254031</a>

MBannon · Sep 14, 2011

Typical new mountain biker's mistake is to try to control the steering by gripping tight and tensing all the arm muscles, basically "forcing" the bike to go where you want it to. Except that it won't, it will go where it needs to go. So shift your body weight way back, even behind the saddle (butt off the saddle, obviously) and loosen the arms and grip and let the handlebars bounce and jostle and rattle in your hands. Your job is just to keep them from going so far astray as to dump you off the bike. As long as they are only shifting back and forth by an inch or so, let them do what they need to do. The bonus is that your hands and arms won't feel like they've been run through a meat grinder at the end of the day.
 
Other classic mistake is looking at the trail right over the front tire - look up instead, focusing on the trail ten feet or so in front of you. Similar to road riding, but harder to do on dirt. Helps a ton, though.

Yo Sake · Sep 16, 2011

The link didn't work.
 
I didn't make it to the practice. I will just jump in a race one of these weekends <img alt="icon_thumleft.gif" id="user_yui_3_4_0_14_1316139842781_20" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_thumleft.gif" style="width:22px;height:20px;"> 

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by jroden <a href="/t/74939/cyclocross-vs-mountain-bikes-and-offroad-handling#post_2013108"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> i have novice riders show up every week.
i'm not sure if you will be able to see this video, it's of our evening practice. we get 30 people when the weather is nice:
 
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1549648254031" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1549648254031</a>
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Cyclocross vs Mountain Bikes and offroad handling

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