Crunchie the 29th of October 2010

gobi · Oct 29, 2010

I had one and it was great.
 
Did hill work last night and it was supposed to be 85% effort various distance sprints, turned into 95% + efforts for large chunks. Top evening but my body aches today :¬)
 
Got back in the water for the first time in 12 days and it was not pretty. I hate it and I have got worse. My long winter of swimming is not going to plan.
 
Off for a run now but just easy, everything is always easy on a Friday.
 
Dove, how is recovery from your race going ? I'm still not brave enough to go that far.
 
Be well and have fun.
 
Gobi

Hemerocallus · Oct 29, 2010

Mornin', Gobi!
 
4 slow miles this morning... starting with 3 outside in the dark, wearing a headlamp and various reflective thingys for visibility. Finished off with 1 mile on the work TM, concentrating on my core and cadance. The butt is still not right, not really hurting badly, but definitely feeling weak. Some small twinges in my back too. Certainly better with the core fully engaged. I thinking it's something neurological likely, like the muscle isn't firing properly. I'm seeing my RMT next Tuesday, so will get a pretty good evaluation of what's going on. We've been down this road before and I think I've caught this early before my pelvis gets all twisted out of alignment and the TFL goes into spasm.
 
Have a terrific day everyone!!

ksrunr · Oct 29, 2010

Long time since we've had a Friday crunchie. "Bout time dark swimmer
 
Hi Heme - take care of that butt!! <img alt="smile.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies//smile.gif">
 
Temps down to low 50's this morning. Cold for us. 10 moh with last three at 7:23, 7:08, 6:49. What a difference a drop of 25 degrees makes in a run!!
 
carry on hummingbirds

Hemerocallus · Oct 29, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by ksrunr <a href="/forum/thread/70878/crunchie-the-29th-of-october-2010#post_1958199"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> What a difference a drop of 25 degrees makes in a run!!
 
</div>
</div>
I'll say! I was out in a sleeveless tank and shorts earlier in the week.... today it was long sleeves pulled down over my knuckles and full length tights for the first time! Brrrrrr!

Pink · Oct 29, 2010

Good Morning! We were 20 degrees cooler this morning too.
 
{Heme}
 
I see your speed is coming back KS - nice finish!
 
I was planning on 10, then wasted time puttering around so then cut it back to 8, but when I got out there in my new sneakers, my foot was really bothering me, so then dropped to just a 5 mile run. My foot was actually doing better lately, so I don't think it liked the new sneakers although my right foot did! I worked on my cadence after turning around. I find it hard to count what my normal cadence might be as I know I'm counting and trying to increase it so I didn't bother. The several 1 minute counts were in the 190's. I didn't notice any back pain during this run, so that's good!
 
Enjoy your day!
 
ETA: Ladies be careful . . . there was a lady runner attacked a couple days ago several towns away (20 minutes) from me early in the morning. Scary stuff.

mcsolar99 · Oct 29, 2010

9.5mi hungry 9min/mi pace
 
starving! all i could think about for the last 3 miles was a stack of french toast with butter and maple syrup. i'll try not to get my keyboard sticky while i post... aahhhh, it's good!
 
pink: 190 is a fast turnover! djsteveboy has some mixes up now that help people with slower cadences move up to about 180. but if you're already at 190 then they won't be any help for you. a quick runner in our group, i think she's about 5-4, normally hits above 200 strides/min, so maybe you're up in her stratospheric rate already. anyway, here's the link to the techno fixed-beat workout mixes from djsteveboy: 
<a href="http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html" target="_blank">http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html</a>

Pink · Oct 29, 2010

mc - french toast sound delicious! I have no idea what my normal cadence is, but that's what it was while trying to keep a high turnover. The run was not particularly fast as my goal was just to work on form and cadence. pace turned out to be 8:01 I'm 5' 3.5" tall !

Labduck · Oct 29, 2010

To augment Gobi's Crunchie, I had my usual two Friday celebration donuts: one glazed and one chocolate frosted cake. As always, they were awesome.
 
Pink, most studies show that the optimal running cadence for elite runners is between 180 and 190. Above 190 and you start to get diminishing returns.
 
Last night, I took the Narcissistic Personality Inventory test. The average American scores 15, with celebrities around 18 points. I scored 6. No wonder I hate Facebook so much.
 
I will run long tomorrow. I feel like going really long, but that would probably be really stoopid.

irunmike · Oct 29, 2010

I have no idea what my HR or cadence is. I have enough numbers in life to think about, But 190 sounds wicked fast turnover, Pink!
 
Ran to work this morning, 14 miles, avg 8:35 pace. It was a beautiful Fall day, 40F at the start, ptly cloudy, no wind. Lots of maple leaves hiding the holes and cracks and sticks. I'm always nervous taking those leaps of faith.
 
Mike

Opie · Oct 29, 2010

Last time I checked my cadence was in February and it was 188, I think. That was speedwork. My log says 94 but I think I was counting every time one foot hit the ground. 170 during warmup & cooldown.
 
I get to run soon in IRC! 4 easy planned.

Tamster · Oct 29, 2010

I've never checked my cadence before, although if I did, I'm sure it was just reaffirm that I'm slow. <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/roll_eyes.gif" style="width:15px;height:15px;" title="">
 
will RAL today. I think it should remain dry today. At least that is what the weather person said this morning. which probably means it'll rain . . .
 
busy wknd here - my son has his last football practice tonight with their championship game tomorrow night at 6 p.m. (under the lights at GPHS, Lab - he's way excited!). and the final HVHS v NVHS game is tonight also - which we'll go to. 
The timing of their championship game tomorrow night is not great as that is when the Ducks are playing, which means the youth football games tomorrow probably won't draw as much of a crowd as past years.
 
Then we are taking him to Haunted Corn Maze tomorrow night - along with some of his football buddies. He is a thrill junkie, so he'll love a night time, scary corn maze like that.
 
I'm going to try and get in my long run this week on Sat a.m. as Sunday is looking like rain all day. Plus lately I've been doing my weekend runs on Sunday and it'll be nice just to stay in, keep warm, watch football and nap on a sunday. Since I'm running a HM in 3 wks, I guess I should try and do 12-13 for my long run on Saturday.

Pink · Oct 29, 2010

Lab - I've got short legs! <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;" title=""> Today was just my first time trying to increase, count and time it a couple of times . . . I figured on the higher side might be good for the first attempt since it means I can achieve the higher rate - I will just have to practice and hone it on what feels and works best . . .
 
And I have no clue as to my HR.
 
Tammy - scary corn maze sounds fun!

Better than yesterday · Oct 29, 2010

I never have figured out what a Crunchie is.
 
Usually when I check my cadence during a training run it's around 160. Increasing it doesn't seem to help matters.
 
Speaking of foot strikes...my foot struck a magazine rack in my bedroom this morning; more accurately my poor little toe struck the $#&^ thing really hard, enough to make me just about fall to the floor. Since the kids hadn't gotten on the bus yet, I spoke no "french", but I did sound quite a bit like Yosemite Sam. 
 
So I think there's about a 50-50 chance that the little toe on my right foot is broken. I probably will not run again until my 15k, which is November 7th. I'm hoping that just staying off of it and I.C.E.ing it will bring the swelling down enough to be able to run by then. 
 
Brian

Sans Souci · Oct 29, 2010

Oh, yowch, BTY. That just bites. The hidden dangers that lurk at home.
 
Friday is as good a time as any to fess up to my unhealthy eating sins. I blame the people I was running with. Dove, what is it with the food the ultra-ers eat? And I'm right there at the trough, devouring potato chips and pop (soda for you AmURicans). I added to the evilness by bringing ginger/chocolate cookies.
 
Gobi, I've had many Crunchies in my time. I wonder if anyone (Heme?) has had a Cuban Lunch.
 
Heme, I hope that RMT gets you sorted.
Labdood, I'm starting to feel the same about FB. I posted a bunch of photos from my trip, mostly because I have little doubt that everyone wants to know about every breath I take, <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/wink.gif" title="">and FB shuffled the deck. It's too much of a PITA to get them in order. Grrrr.
 
Careful with all this cadence changing stuff. When Marilyn Arsenault (masters runner extraordinaire) taught our group POSE, she said she had taken three months to learn the method. With it you'll get the right leg alignment and hamstring "pull" to quicken the turnover. When I had a Polar watch, it tracked cadence, but like you, Pink, I can't keep these numbers in my head. That may be one thing I can do right. If you don't have "it," at least you can have a quick cadence. ETA: Whether fast or slow, I'm told cadence should be the same.
 
90' vinyasa
 
Holy moly, did I need that. We did a lot of proprioceptive moves. The message was that the stabilizers around my ankles did a lot of work last weekend. Still tired -- I slept through a show I was supposed to caption last night (whoops!) -- but things coming along okay.
 
Sending FF vibes ... hope she'll show up today. Have a good weekend, all!

Opie · Oct 29, 2010

Ran some with a pack of guys from the downtown Y who run at lunch every day & that was fun. Done it once or twice before. I wish they would do speedwork, though, and their easy pace isn't quite easy enough.

mcsolar99 · Oct 29, 2010

pink you're 5-3.5"? ok, it's starting to make sense <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/smile.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;" title="">... you probably still want to go with your intuition and try to increase your cadence. as ss says though, take your time and work on changes s-l-o-w-l-y.
 
like labduck i've also read articles about 180-190, but i've watched a lot of marathons... and geeked out by timing the turnover whenever they show the elite runners. you can't watch their feet, but watching their armswings and counting does the trick too. usually they're over 190... i remember watching hendrick ramala hammer away down 1st av in nyc and he was crusing at 195 strides/min. 2:16 marathoner in our group is regularly over 190, and says he's hit 210 in some workouts. and a fast, height-challenged master's woman runner regularly runs 205+ on easy runs... i'm not sure what she hits in races or speedwork. i've tried to match her cadence on some of our runs together and i can't even do it for 15 seconds.
 
eta - ss, you were hitting close to 190 from what i can remember of trying to match your strides... and don't pretend that you don't got it <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/notworthy.gif" style="width:29px;height:15px;" title="">

Sans Souci · Oct 29, 2010

<Randy Newman>
 
Short people got no reason 
Short people got no reason 
Short people got no reason 
To overstride
 
</>
 
mc flapjack, I'd like a stack, SVP. Eating like there's no tomorrow over here.
 
People with "it" don't fold in the last 10k, as I have in my last two marathons. While not a massive fold, I'm still not gritty enough, it seems, or something's not quite right. Not sure what that is. I should spend time figuring it out, but instead I just want to hit the hills and trails for a while. That should clear the old noggin.
 
Can I posit an opinion on your gait? I have in mind that pic of you when you ran extra legs at Phoenix, kilted, when you were justifiably tired and that's when form crumples and maybe reveals what needs extra attention.
I see you leaning forward, which is great (that gravity thang with POSE <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/hello.gif" title="">), but you want your shoulders and upper body to remain "full," chest/lungs as open as possible to take in max oxygen. Glutes workin', hips going in the direction you wanna git. I don't see leg turnover as a problem; you've got the quick/light thing going.

Pink · Oct 29, 2010

So SS - is POSE a good thing? My PT this morning mentioned he had a video of it someone gave him and offered to me, but I passed as I said I'd like to work my cadence to see if that helps stop my overstriding . . . should I take him up on borrowing next visit?
 
I think my overstriding has done a toll on me with my increased mileage this year and then lack of core on top of an old fracture in my l4/l5 area that my ortho said has left me vulnerable to nerve irritation . . . never knew I had the fracture. He asked if I did gymnastics or cheerleading when younger - I did gymnastics so he said he blames that . . . it's an old one, nothing new.
 
A typical 1/2 marathon picture of me at some point usually shows me overstriding - this recent 1/2 there were 2 - one right and one left sided . . . and typical, I usually replace my sneakers when the heel wears through . . .
 
 
Another pic for MB's dreadful video - hey, where the heck is MB anyway? Another lost to FB?
 
 
<a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/61516/width/1000/height/800/flags/" target="_blank"><img alt="2010 Hartford Half.jpg" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="14717" data-type="61" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/14717/width/256/height/384" style="; width: 256px; height: 384px"></a>

Labduck · Oct 29, 2010

Not so dreadful of a pic Pink. But where is the pink? <img alt="" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;" title="">
 
You can definitely see the overstriding. Have you ever considered trying to run in Vibram Five Fingers for a few miles a week? You can't hide form flaws when you do or you get instant feedback. One of my training partners is a personal trainer who teaches beginning running, and she has all of her students run laps in their socks on the indoor track at our gym. She claims their form improves immediately. I run a few miles a week in the VF5s to help me learn how to pronate correctly because shoes make my feet lazy.

Pink · Oct 29, 2010

The dreadful part in this pic is the overstride. One has to concentrate very hard to overstride <img alt="smile.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies//smile.gif" style="width:1px;height:1px;">
 
Thought I'd run incognito that day in lavender . . .
 
I did try 1/2 mile on the TM the other day with just socks and it is amazing with the first step how quickly one adjusts to more forefoot. I couldn't last too long as it felt like I would get blisters and the tm belt was very warm. The last time I ran 1 mile on the TM I got a couple of good blisters. Not sure if the blisters are due to form and learning vs. TM or what??? Any ideas?

Crunchie the 29th of October 2010

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