[gatorbob]

<p>...  <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5917145" target="_blank">with the Phillies</a> ???</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't think the Yankees or Rangers saw this one coming.  He's taking 5 years, $120M from the Phillies when he could have had 6 years from the Rangers or 7 years from the Yankees.  Wow.  I'm almost surprised the Player's Union let him do this...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Hamels.  The Phillies will have a damn good rotation.  Wow.</p>

 

[theia]

<p>Merry Cliffmas, Phillies phans!!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/65932/width/1000/height/800/flags/" target="_blank"><img alt="phillies.gif" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="15451" data-type="61" src="http://www.kickrunners.com/content/type/61/id/15451/width/443/height/500" style="; width: 443px; height: 500px"></a></p>

 

[jcumming]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>GatorBob</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/71644/cliff-lee-signs#post_1969442"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>  Wow.  I'm almost surprised the Player's Union let him do this...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
I read your take on players' union pressure and I think that there very likely is some. However some players are just going to go where they want and just be really really rich instead of really filthy rich.<br>
 </p>

 

[hazelrah]

<p>I am not a Phillies fan but I had to applaud when I heard that. I wonder if just the raw heat in the Texas summer made him shun Texas (it would me, but I am a northerner). The reasons for snubbing the Yankee circus I can relate to as well. Ofcourse if the money was not important to him he could have fed an African country for a year with what he did not want. Good for Cliff Lee and good for the Phillies. Now if only they played the games on paper we could pencil in the Phillies and Red Sox in the WS right now.</p>

 

[mmoonptdeux]

<p>Wow, the Phillies have one helluva' pitching staff at this moment on paper.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>$70 million for four players (I included Hamels in this group) - the big pressure might not lie on these guys but the bullpen to close out the tight games.<br><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jcumming</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/71644/cliff-lee-signs#post_1969518"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>GatorBob</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/71644/cliff-lee-signs#post_1969442"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>  Wow.  I'm almost surprised the Player's Union let him do this...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
I read your take on players' union pressure and I think that there very likely is some. However some players are just going to go where they want and just be really really rich instead of really filthy rich.<br>
 </p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br>

 

[gatorbob]

<p>I'm actually thrilled that Lee took a lower offer.  It just gets sickening to hear all these guys always chase the biggest offer.  And if there is some pressure from the union... well, it looks like Lee might be giving them a big ol' middle finger.  Good for him.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>For years, fans have been wondering what the limit was.  I mean, when is it enough money?  Maybe we just found the answer.  $120M.  That's enough money.  He would rather take $120M and go where he wanted than to take $154M and go where he didn't. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am looking forward to the matchup between the Red Sox and Phillies in the 2011 World Series.  Which of course means that it'll really be the Reds vs the White Sox, or something like that...  <span><img alt="rolleyes.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="width:16px;height:16px;"></span></p>

 

[buzzy]

<p><span><img alt="icon_cheers.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_cheers.gif" style="width:24px;height:24px;"></span><span><img alt="laughing6.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/laughing6.gif" style="width:15px;height:15px;"></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>And best of all, the Yankees didn't get him.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>--buzz</p>

 

[Tech Tee]

<p>a) What the?  No one saw that coming.  I woke up this morning and had to re-read the article twice.  I really really thought he was going to stay with Texas</p>
<p>b) I bet the Yankees are mega pissed.  I'm kinda enjoying that part</p>
<p>c) yeah, as a Phillies fan, I'm glad to see Lee back, I really liked him</p>
<p>d) what bugs me is, I see the Phillies becoming like the Yankees.  Buy your team.  They already had the 4th highest payroll.  They might be up to #3 now.  At least Lee went for the lesser offer.  Kudos for him</p>
<p>e) maybe Werth leaving paved the way money wise to be able to get Lee</p>

 

[yar]

<p>They're speculating on the local (Texas) radio that it may have been partly a matter that lee has a son in remission from leukemia and Philly has a 1st rate kids' hospital. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>yar</p>

 

[Tech Tee]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>yar</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/71644/cliff-lee-signs#post_1969618"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>They're speculating on the local (Texas) radio that it may have been partly a matter that lee has a son in remission from leukemia and Philly has a 1st rate kids' hospital. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>yar</p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
Didn't know that.  And yes, CHOP (if that's the hospital they're talking about) is certainly first rate.  But I'm sure they have a good kids hospital in NYC too.  BUT...there is also speculation that Lee's wife nixed the deal for NYC too.  And I don't blame her.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Probably it was a combination of things.  And Philly won.<br>
 </p>

 

[hazelrah]

<p>I am betting the Yankees and Rangers are PO'd, but I personally believe they got saved from themselves. Lee is a great pitcher but 7 years ? I could see him falling apart in a year or two (he had back problems last year). Pitchers are huge risk. The Yankees could absorb it, not sure about the Rangers. It took the Yankees a while to get over the Pavano disaster. Pavano is one I really wanted the Tigers to get at that time, they went after him but lost out. Sometimes "losing" in these off season sweepstakes is really winning.</p>

 

[gatorbob]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hazelrah</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/71644/cliff-lee-signs#post_1969659"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I am betting the Yankees and Rangers are PO'd, but I personally believe they got saved from themselves. Lee is a great pitcher but 7 years ? I could see him falling apart in a year or two (he had back problems last year). Pitchers are huge risk. The Yankees could absorb it, not sure about the Rangers. It took the Yankees a while to get over the Pavano disaster. Pavano is one I really wanted the Tigers to get at that time, they went after him but lost out. Sometimes "losing" in these off season sweepstakes is really winning.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
Very true.  The Red Sox, for example, got outbid by the Yankees on Pavano and Jose Contreras.  And I don't think the Sox regret that at all...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Just about any time you sign a player (especially a pitcher) to a long-term deal, there's a greater than 50-50 chance that you'll be throwing money down the toilet at some point before the contract is up.  But the problem is, if your franchise makes some sort of edict that you will never sign anyone to a long term deal, then you'll probably never get the good free agents, because there's someone else out there who will give them the outrageous deal.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's a fine line.  Occasionally you have to give out a stupid contract in order to be competitive on the field.  But you can't give out too many stupid contracts or you'll hamstring yourself for years into the future.  If you're the Yankees, you can afford to bury a few of the screw-ups (Pavano, Kei Igawa, Contreras, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Javier Vasquez twice, etc -- and those are just the pitchers!) without missing much of a beat.  But if you're a poor team, one screw-up can kill you.  For example, if Joe Mauer gets some catastrophic injury that ends his career, the Twins are probably screwed. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So like I say, it's a fine line.  And you just have to guess the best way to walk it...<br>
 </p>