[shellerz]

<p>hi kicksters, it's been a while. now that Mind The Ducks is over, i am finally ready to start talking about and focusing on my races for the rest of the year.<span><img alt="icon_cheers.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_cheers.gif"></span> anyhoo... on tuesday i was sitting here minding my own business and i was struck by a thunderbolt and a cry rose up in my spirit:</p>
<p>24 hours.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>NO NO NO NO NO, i said back. why am i thinking 24 hours? i did one and it was so freaking terrible i said it would be a very very long time before i did another one... like - never. ever ever ever ever again. that's how much i hated it. and i luuurve timed races. running in circles is so happy making to me. for 6 hours- great! for 12? even better! but 24 was... well, soul crushing. and i just have it in my head that i can't. i can't do this, i'm not cut out for it - it's just not for me etc etc etc.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>and i know the first time you have a rough 50k you think those same things, and then you go and do another one and it's not so bad and you say well, that bad 50k was just an anamoly, it doesn't mean i am a sucky runner, it just means that it wasn't my day that day. and then there's 50 miles, and i have covered that distance 3 times now, and it was never bad... always enjoyable, even through the discomforts. but 24 ... for some reason i think 24 is just different and it will always be horrible. i covered just over 90 miles at northcoast and i had virtually <span style="text-decoration:underline;">no</span> fun.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>was it a bad day? have you had bad 24s and good ones? i mean - i don't care so much about the distance (like maybe once you did a 24 where you did 75 miles and another time 120 miles) but feeling. happiness. ultrarunning is a fun and happy thing to do, even though it's sometimes painful. NC was downright miserable, and i don't want to be miserable again. i feel called, but am scared to sign up. any advice or stories to tell me?</p>

 

[merigayle]

<p>Why do you want to do it again? Maybe have looser goals and more fun I think y ou either like a timed format or you don't. Just personal preference. I really enjoy the 24 hour race but I have never "raced" one and just went for fun.</p>

 

[shellerz]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>merigayle</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/73925/24-hour-vets-help-i-m-skeered-to-go-again#post_2000159"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Why do you want to do it again? Maybe have looser goals and more fun I think y ou either like a timed format or you don't. Just personal preference. I really enjoy the 24 hour race but I have never "raced" one and just went for fun.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br><p>i dunno meri, honestly that is the confusing part. my husband and i are kinda religious so it was very strange when he came home from work the same day and said, 'you know what i thought of today? destination 24.' and i was all - no freaking way! he's never talked about doing one before. it was very freaky.</p>

 

[merigayle]

<p>so maybe just go with different goals and just enjoy the party of a 24 hour race? All the timed races I have done have felt like parties, LOL.</p>

 

[Flounder]

<p>I am not sure what the exact question is?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>To me the 1st 14-16 hours of a 24 hour race your pace or really it's more of an internal tempo - Should feel as effortless as if you were sitting on the couch just breathing - For me it is a tempo - a rythm - a feeling.  I do not go with any preconceived expected pace or time per lap.  I just to move effortlessly for as long as possible.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>#1 concern is that effortless feeling</p>
<p>#2 concern is how am I going to get calories, hydration and electrolytes - This is the least fun part of the race.  I am a eating - drinking - salt taking machine.  I consume a minimum of 400 calories with a goal of 500 calories per hour.</p>
<p>#3 concern is to keep feet in good condition for the 1st 20 hours</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am really good at lying to myself.  As people pass me like clockwork the 1st 8 hours, I tell myself - I will make hay when the sun goes down.  Night time is my time.  Reality is most others slow down and I do not.  I believe an effortless 1st 16 hours and a tough, pushing, grinding last 8 hours will proide pretty close to even splits.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I walk as planned - Basically it takes a lot of discipline to walk when you are not tired, to eat when you are not hungry to drink when you are not thirsty.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You can tell when I am having a good race, because I will wear a smile for 80% of the race.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Lets face it 100 miles = 14 minute 24 second miles - Which reminds me your goal is relentless forward motion for 24 hours.  Potty breaks are ok.  I tend to error on too much hydration and need a lot of them.  I think at FANS24 where I hit 147, I had to take 20 potty breaks.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Like most things in life - It depends a lot on your attitude.  Enjoy the adventure!</p>

 

[Flounder]

<p>PS - Yes good ones and bad one</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There are so many things that have to go right for a great race - If you get to 90% of your potential it is near perfection.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>When I ran my 1st 24 hour.  I had the squirts so bad - The 1st 8 4km loops - 4 minutes in the bathroom each loop.  By 6 hours I was very dizzy.  I would run until I felt like I would pass out then walk until I thought I could run again - Repeat for 18 hours.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Even though I only had 103 miles at 2009 NC - I was there for fun and to meet people - I ran about 19 of the hours and had a blast.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So I have run 3 fun 24 hour races, 1 miserable.  I have done well at 2 24 hour races and poorly at 2.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I relish every one for the experience</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>

 

[shellerz]

<p>thanks flounder and meri. i definitely think it was an attitude thing. i got way too caught up in the months before the race in "what i could do" and was constantly asked "what are your goals?" "what are you going to do?" as if it were somehow in my power to train a certain way, wave the magic wand over myself and POOF! i've run 100 miles. it infused the whole day with a dog fight mentality, instead of the 'we're all in this together, let's have fun' that i usually have. in the end this killed me. whether i only ran 90 because it was all  could do physically or because i lost the mind game is irrelevant to me, all i know is i left horribly depressed.</p>
<p>i am thinking about hinson lake. something about the uneven laps, lap counters, no score clock and being alone in the woods sounds appealing. i will run without my garmin and will be able to resist the urge to do math or know how far i've gone - that makes a big difference to me. at NC, i just couldn't avoid knowing. (i did a 12 hour training run of 1 mile loops around my neighborhood before NC and i went so far as to wear my garmin and put electrical tape over the face of it so i couldn't see my pace or mileage. in the last hour i removed it an peaked and when i saw i had run and walked 52 miles around my neighborhood very "suddenly" i felt terrible and exhausted. further proof that it's all in my head and it is probably what really killed me at NC.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>flounder it helps to know that you've had a miserable one and some happy ones. it means that i could have a not miserable one then too. and as far as "what is the question?" i guess the question is 'can anyone make me feel better about this?' and the answer is: you guys did. thanks!</p>

 

[merigayle]

<p>when people ask you your goal, say to have fun no need to put extra pressure on yourself if you want to enjoy the race.</p>

 

[Just Jim]

<p>Shellerz as we chatted about on FB, I absolutely adore Hinson Lake, the atmosphere and environment are about as different as you can get compared to North Coast. The terrain is more varied without being technical, it is a 24 hour running party.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Come on down, and (as Meri says) run for fun, and see how many miles you put up. Or just run for fun and not care how may miles you put up.</p>

 

[Flounder]

<p>In 24 hour races I am just in my groove, trying to pace right, eat & drink right.  I rarely even check my distance until the last 4-6 hours.  Even at the WC race - I did not check my mileage until @ 19 hours.  It really has no bearing on what I need to do.  If you want to stress about something - Stress about if you are getting enough calories or if you are going slow enough to be moving well @ 23 hours.  Be one of the people that is smiling and looking good at 23 hours.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think you should try again and as Meri said - To enjoy the day / night ... really the experience.</p>

 

[shellerz]

<p>okay.....okay! <span><img alt="icon_bounce.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_bounce.gif"></span>i am pumping myself up now. all good advice, thanks guys! (sidebar: flounder, i am really surprised you don't know your mileage until closer to the end. also, that you can consume that many calories... gut of steel!<span><img alt="icescream.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icescream.gif"></span>)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>have my application printed out and it is sitting on the desk asking to be filled out.... <span><img alt="uhoh2.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/uhoh2.gif"></span></p>

 

[Flounder]

<p>although I work in a finance capacity, I am not a numbers geek.  To me the biggest risk of doing poorly in a 24 hour race is pushing it before 18-20 hours.  I run the 24 completely based on how it should feel in each stage of the race (My impression on how it should feel).  If I know my distance it will only put added pressure to do something different than I know I should be doing.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That being said - Many races do shout out at you when you hit certain splits.  So there are times I know when I hit 50 and 100 miles -</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Heck - Maybe I would do better pushing earlier, but I do not believe that would be true.  I have seen way too many people run too hard the 1st 8-12 hours and then look like death warmed over for 12-16 hours - Yuck why would I want to feel that bad for that long.  I tried that once and no Sir I did not like it!<br><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>shellerz</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/73925/24-hour-vets-help-i-m-skeered-to-go-again#post_2000506"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>okay.....okay! <span><img alt="icon_bounce.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_bounce.gif"></span>i am pumping myself up now. all good advice, thanks guys! (sidebar: flounder, i am really surprised you don't know your mileage until closer to the end. also, that you can consume that many calories... gut of steel!<span><img alt="icescream.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icescream.gif"></span>)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>have my application printed out and it is sitting on the desk asking to be filled out.... <span><img alt="uhoh2.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/uhoh2.gif"></span></p>
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<br><br><p> </p>

 

[Flounder]

<p>PS - Fill it out and send it in</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I see you as a just do it person - So just do it!</p>

 

[shellerz]

<p>good point flounder. i ran too hard at northcoast 'cause i can so why not?' but that's dumb and i'd never do that at a shorter distance race, so why did i do it then? duuuuuuh. i think it'll help if it is ungodly hot at hinson lake... force me to go really slow. i am a just do it person. it's filled out....do i have an envelope? hmmmm<span><img alt="rolleyes.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/rolleyes.gif"></span></p>

 

[Just Jim]

<p>Got a stamp yet? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was ungodly hot last year. Mid 90's with appropriate humidity. Slowed just about everyone down.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The notable exception being Mike Morton's amazing 153.89 miles. (I wonder if he knew how close he was to your WC mileage Flounder).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Normally, 80's and low humidity though.</p>

 

[merigayle]

<p>Flounder- you would not have liked 3 Days at the Fair, they had a computer monitor with your lap and mileage every time thru. I liked it because I was assured i got credit for every lap thru.</p>

 

[Flounder]

<p>I was very excited for 2011 WC race - We had an amazing team - Just didn't have a race.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Scott Jurek 166</p>
<p>Serge Arbona 156</p>
<p>Flounder 154</p>
<p>Mike Morton 154</p>
<p>Phil McCarthy (Just ran 257 in 48)</p>
<p>Nick Coury - Only 136 - But young and talented</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I really thought we should have a great chance at the team silver if everyone ran a solid race - A long shot against Japan for Gold</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Morton - Since he did the 154 in much less than ideal conditions, I though he had a great chance at taking a crack at Jurek's AR.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But - Now that is old stuff - The new stuff is only 1 person is qualified for 2012 and 1 qualifying distance</p>
<p>*  Serge Arbona is in for his 2010 US championship</p>
<p>*  Phil's 136 24 hour split in 48 get's him on the list (Although I do not think it will hold up)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Scott Jurek may have run the WC24 - But I am not sure he will run another qualifying race to make the 2012 team - Only he knows.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All I know is the next 13 months are gonna be fun to see who makes the team.</p>
<p><br><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Just Jim</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/73925/24-hour-vets-help-i-m-skeered-to-go-again#post_2000554"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Got a stamp yet? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was ungodly hot last year. Mid 90's with appropriate humidity. Slowed just about everyone down.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The notable exception being Mike Morton's amazing 153.89 miles. (I wonder if he knew how close he was to your WC mileage Flounder).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Normally, 80's and low humidity though.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br><p> </p>

 

[Flounder]

<p>I am really good at ignoring stuff like that.  At FANS24 they have a leaderboard up both years the whole race.  Year #1, I did not notice it until the 22nd hour.  Year #2, I chose to not look at all.  They did let me know when I had broke the course record.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2010 WC race - They had a big monitor with lap and distance - I think I saw it 5 or 6 of the 190+ laps I did.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I hear it beep when I hit the mat that is good enough for me.<br><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>merigayle</strong> <a href="/forum/thread/73925/24-hour-vets-help-i-m-skeered-to-go-again#post_2000593"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Flounder- you would not have liked 3 Days at the Fair, they had a computer monitor with your lap and mileage every time thru. I liked it because I was assured i got credit for every lap thru.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br><p> </p>

 

[shellerz]

<p>i did it i did it i did it!! i signed up and mailed it away. yay! <span><img alt="icon_cheers.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_cheers.gif"> ummmm.... uh oh</span><span><img alt="icon_puke_r.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/icon_puke_r.gif"></span><span><img alt="uhoh2.gif" src="http://files.kickrunners.com/smilies/uhoh2.gif"></span></p>

 

[merigayle]

<p>that is great! you will be fine!</p>