Going Old School: Need help in training plan rescue - KickRunners.com
 
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#1 of 10 Old 09-20-2014, 10:37 AM - Thead Starter
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Going Old School: Need help in training plan rescue

Here is an old school post where a question is posed....and then people answer. Remember those days?

OK, I fell off the training wagon two weeks ago. Got dinged up in the hip, work went nuts, truck broke, had visitors in the home, etc. etc. I could barely do anything. So, I essentially said screw it and threw my running shoes in the closet for one week. I was in the final weeks of marathon training. Oops. So I know any goal I had is out the window, but I am interested in seeing what I can salvage. So I'd like some help in figuring out the final weeks of training and how to modify my taper.

Race: Des Moines 10/19, so four weeks from now.

Training to date, will go in reverse order, assuming race is week 1, and will only go back about 20 weeks

Week 1: Race, Taper is about 3-4 miles every other day
Week 2: Taper, need help, had 20 miles planned
Week 3: Need help, had 33 miles planned with 14 long run
Week 4: Need help, had 47 planned, including 23 mile long run
Week 5: 3 miles (was relaxing not caring about training)
Week 6: 34 miles, with a 20 miler turned into 16, which is when the break started
Week 7: 17 miles (visitors, wheels starting coming off)
Week 8: 39 miles, with a 20 miler
Week 9: 41 miles
Week 10: 44 miles, with a 20 miler
Week 11: 37 miles
Week 12: 41 miles, with a 18 miler
Week 13: 24 miles (was in Iceland!!)
Week 14: 24 miles
Week 15: 34 miles, with a 17 miler
Week 16: 33 miles
Week 17: 29 miles, with a half (1:37)
Week 18: 18 miles (baby taper)
Week 19: 33 miles
Week 20: 31 miles

Before that I was running 25-30 miles for a couple months.

So, in theory, this coming week would be my last long week. But given the last couple weeks, I am leaning towards skipping the long run and working back to getting some quality 6-7 milers during the week and then only doing 12-14 on the weekend.

Any thoughts? Do I push a little deeper with hard workouts into the taper time? Do I just jump right back into my plan and ignore the last couple weeks?

I ran this race last year in 3:26 at a similar level of training and had planned on trying to get into the 3:22 range. I don't think that is possible now, so leaning right now towards going out with the 3:30 pace group and enjoying the day.

In pondering all that has happened in the last couple weeks, my ability to recover is really becoming my limiter. Will have to figure that out later.

Thanks for your thoughts.

-Jim
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#2 of 10 Old 09-20-2014, 01:53 PM
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What was wrong with the hip? What set it off? And what is its current status?

(I know I am not the best one to give advice on your plan, but I suspect those who are will want this info.)
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#3 of 10 Old 09-20-2014, 06:35 PM - Thead Starter
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I don't know what I tweaked, but it seems to have healed. I think the hip flexor got really, really tight and took some time to get it feeling normal. I seem to be healthy and ready to get back after it.
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#4 of 10 Old 09-21-2014, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkaiser20 View Post
. So I know any goal I had is out the window, but I am interested in seeing what I can salvage.


.......

So, in theory, this coming week would be my last long week. But given the last couple weeks, I am leaning towards skipping the long run and working back to getting some quality 6-7 milers during the week and then only doing 12-14 on the weekend.

Any thoughts? Do I push a little deeper with hard workouts into the taper time? Do I just jump right back into my plan and ignore the last couple weeks?

-Jim


IMHO you nailed it. Do NOT resume where you left off, that's likely to bring you back to injury-land. Do revise the plan.


Race day you can decide how hard to push it, but I would toss the PR thought from my head and stomp on it like the bad idea it is (because again, it seems like that's a ticket to injury-land).


p.s. I like old school, we need more.

- If you think you can't, you're right.
- Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
- REJOICE and Whine not! For today you are doing that which most only dream.

 

www.fatman2ironman.com

 

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#5 of 10 Old 09-22-2014, 08:32 AM
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Jim,

It seems to me that 80% of your hay is in the barn. Your training included two 20-milers, an 18-miler, a 17-miler and a 16-miler. The two week layoff hurt your fitness, but didn't kill it.

Stick with your existing plan.
Finish it out.
Don't try and make up what you missed.
Dial back your expectations, but not completely.

I wouldn't go into the race with the thought of just enjoying the day, but I wouldn't necessarily shoot for the 4 minute PR either. If it were me, I'd probably start off at 7:52 min/mi pace (3:26 finish)and see how it feels. If you're feeling good at the 16 mile mark, rev it up a bit (but not too much!) and go for the PR. It would be a shame to put in all that training and finish up the day feeling like you had more left in the tank.

I am curious about your plan that in week 10 has a 20-miler during a week when your total mileage was 44 miles. That's an awful big chunk of your weekly mileage in one day. But I don't know how the rest of the days that week broke out.

Also, I just ran a marathon after six weeks of training and I've got another marathon this coming weekend and a 50k trail race in 3 weeks. So, I'm a moron. Take what I say with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Good luck!

Mike
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#6 of 10 Old 09-22-2014, 11:57 AM - Thead Starter
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Thanks Mike,

That week 10 had 5 other runs in it (5, 7, 5, 3 (track), and 4). I tend to max out at around 40-45 MPW, though I know I need to stretch that a bit if I really want to hit my aggressive goal (which I don't have).

I do not plan to try bite off another long one this weekend. I fear I will not be able to recover effectively enough. I'll see how this week goes and decide on 14, or 16 or xx.
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#7 of 10 Old 09-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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I agree with Mike. You have done the majority of the work for your race. Dialing back your expectations a little bit is the best thing now.

Good luck, and make sure to take care of your hip these next few weeks!
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#8 of 10 Old 09-23-2014, 07:32 AM
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I was going to say dig deeper (at least week 3 can have a higher mileage), well, until your comment about your slow recovery toward the end of your post. I haven't trained for a marathon for a few years, but if I were you, I would squeeze in yasso 800 or something similar to know where you are at (in order to set some kind of rough goal). Also, I like the feeling of successful cruise intervals, leading up to the race, so I might do 1/wk, with some relative fresh legs, of course that's hard to come by...
I somehow thought you were late 40's or early 50's. Is this slow recovery thing becoming noticeable after the break? or in general during this training period? I am curious as I am feeling that big time (47yo).
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#9 of 10 Old 09-30-2014, 04:32 AM - Thead Starter
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Quick status update. So far so good. Went right into the plan where I left off, but without doing the last long run. I split that up to get the mileage but also getting a little more recovery. Not planning much adjustment to taper period except to make sure I do some decent pace work. I am doing the Des Moines marathon on 10/19. They have a 3:30 pace group that I went out with last year for the first four miles, then eased away. I will likely take a similar approach. The first half has a decent amount of gradual uphill and using a pace group to stay in check worked well.

Yo: I am 43, and the recovery thing sort of comes and goes. I used to be more diligent with post run recovery while tri training than I am now. I still work nutrition ok after hard runs, but don't always stretch and ice like I know I should. So I guess I should try doing the right things in the next train-up.
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#10 of 10 Old 10-02-2014, 08:06 AM
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Kaiser, I don't have a lot of time to write my own assessment so I will steal the exact message I would have written myself. It is here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
Stick with your existing plan.
Finish it out.
Don't try and make up what you missed.
Dial back your expectations, but not completely.
You missed a week plus some. I'd say you're well rested. You did not fall behind nearly what you think. Not nearly. You may not be able to rip off a 3 hour marathon, but dial back expectation by a few minutes, go out easy, and assess as the race unfolds. Let the race come to you.
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