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#76 of 113 Old 12-05-2010, 08:02 PM
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Why is Big Horn always the same weekend as San Juan Solstice 50M?  disgust.gif

 

If I don't run the whole thing, I'll be pacing my friend the final 10 miles.

 

If you want a REAL Mountain Ultra, you should visit Lake City. The final aid station has a grill and booze. Check out the the elevation chart at this bottom of Course Info.

 

ChrisG

 

 

Oh wow. That is daunting.

The snow, and lack of oxygen put me off.....

...which is more than cancelled out by the 'grill and booze'. They know how to woo me!

 

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#77 of 113 Old 12-05-2010, 09:49 PM
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Embrace the snow, Jim.  It's pretty fun in the summer :-)

 

Oxygen is overrated. 

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#78 of 113 Old 12-07-2010, 06:48 AM
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Sherpa.  I have never heard that the Board recieves any money, but if they do, I would be very dissapointed in that.  Does anyone have any definite answer to that?   Well.....0-2 on the lottery.  Next year, 3 tickets.   Looking at the way MMT does the lottery, that looks like a fun and transparent way to do it. 

 

Hypothetical situation..... I miss the lottery 4 times in a row at WS (very possible)  On the 5th year, there are also 80 other runners who are 4 time losers (very possible)  Will WS ever come out and say that the 80, four time losers will get automatic entry into the next race?  

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#79 of 113 Old 12-07-2010, 09:47 AM
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i can't believe i'm missing this conversation about WS! larger race directors almost always get paid something, whether they direct the most popular 10k in town or a marathon or triathlon. you don't see much of that in the ultra world because the numbers of participants are just so low and support/ permit costs are so much higher. even with a big entry fee a lot of races barely make it. my race is easy to direct but it is all consuming for a number of months. i can't imagine the logistics of a point to point or long out and back 100 mile race. WS does have the advantage of it's name and history, though. the little guys have to work for that... hard. pounding pavement( or keyboards) to find sponsors, advertising our brains out, thinking of any creative way to get people to sign up just so we don't have to pay the shortfall out of our own pockets. WS (in my opinion) has a pretty crappy website, likely has companies falling all over themselves offering them sponsorship deals, and though they'll throw a few ads in ultrarunning mag - they don't need to. a lot of the work is eliminated right there. however, putting on a first class event is still an insane amount of work.

 

if it sounds like i am torn, i am. in my opinion, race directors of an individual race deserve to be paid, but they shouldn't be. they should be doing it sacrificially for the good of the sport. the costs should not be prohibitive. ya gotta pay the bills, and as far as i'm concerned what's left over (if anything) needs to go to charity or to the racers in the form of prizes. however, i don't judge people who do it differently. my $.02

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#80 of 113 Old 12-07-2010, 09:59 AM
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sheller.....i am with you on taking both sides on this.  I have to guess though that the WS race director job is equal to a full time job.  And if that is the case...he should be payed a fair salary to support his family.  There are many, many directors that we are forever greatful for putting on quality events while taking no money, but I believe in the WS case, it would have to be a full time volunteer job, which not many people can do. 

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#81 of 113 Old 12-07-2010, 11:29 AM
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I don't have a problem with RDs getting paid.  If it helps them offset some of their time and effort and lets them put on a better race, all the better.

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#82 of 113 Old 12-07-2010, 11:46 AM - Thead Starter
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sad2.gif   my butt still hurts.  wtf, its been a month ... derrrrrr ...  cwm21.gif

 

.


 Smile, breathe and go slowly  ~ Thich Nhat Hanh 
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#83 of 113 Old 12-07-2010, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flrunnuts View Post

Sherpa.  I have never heard that the Board recieves any money, but if they do, I would be very dissapointed in that.  Does anyone have any definite answer to that?   Well.....0-2 on the lottery.  Next year, 3 tickets.   Looking at the way MMT does the lottery, that looks like a fun and transparent way to do it. 

 

Hypothetical situation..... I miss the lottery 4 times in a row at WS (very possible)  On the 5th year, there are also 80 other runners who are 4 time losers (very possible)  Will WS ever come out and say that the 80, four time losers will get automatic entry into the next race?  

 

Sherpa has been bitchin about people getting paid to put on races on just about every forum. He did it on the big list and just told politelty he doesn't have a clue  what t it takes in time commitment to put on a race of that caliber. Anyone can put on a fat ass event and and many do and as a runner we love those type races.  OTOH a FA event is one **** of lot different event than an epic event like WS.

 

I'm not particularly fond of WS only because I don't like that grandiose of an event but the RD works his ass off and diseserves to be compensated.

 

Bottom line Sherpa if you don't like fact the RD or the bloody water boy gets paid, DON"T  run the race!  Whining about at every fire hydrant is childish. You are at a point in your life, education,  where funds are low and races such a WS are costly. Until such time you finish school and find employment, choose races you can afford and there are many reasonable races.

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#84 of 113 Old 12-08-2010, 07:15 PM
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Which is why I'm not going back... which is why I'll never go back to JFK... which is why I'll never run Bel Monte... etc etc etc...

 

But thanks for echoing the sentiments of the dozens Doug.. I've got it... One thing that I can't stand is that on every forum I decided to share my opinion with.. my opinion isn't what was attacked... I've been personally attacked... much the same way you've done here. If only you could find a way to communicate your opinion without being insulting.. maybe THEN you'll sound intelligent and mature yourself.

 

Why can't people accept the opinions of others WITHOUT making excuses or reasons for why they feel the way they do. "It's ok.. it's only because you're in college and don't have a lot of income." How the **** do you know what I have for income? Why do I need a reason or excuse?

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#85 of 113 Old 12-09-2010, 05:55 AM
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John- it is crazy to see things like the JFK entry just sky rocket. I cannot believe how much it grew in the past 5 years. I did not really like that race, but it is close to home and lots of friends go. You can count on me not ever going back to that one! I think the issue is that a lot of these high cost races became high cost recently, it was not always like that and it is hard to see races go from affordable to out of the budget in a matter of a couple years. I have only been running ultras for 6 or so years, I cannot imagine how the people who have been running them longer feel. Popularity is great, but the cost is just getting out of hand for a lot of races. I know races are expensive, permits, etc, but it is hard to see things just sky rocket because they can. JFK is the biggest example of this.


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#86 of 113 Old 12-09-2010, 06:57 AM
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It really seems pretty simple to me.  The costs will keep going up as long as the numbers keep going up.  If you want to pay that exuberant money to run it, you shouldn't complain about it.  You know going in what it costs.  I agree, for instance, that it is kinda ridiculous to be paying 370 dollars to run WS, but I still want to run it and won't complain about how much it costs.  Why?  Because there are so many great races out there that I love to run that are fat ass style races and are free.  They really are my favorite races to run...the Wickham Parks and Ancient Oaks...both great races run by excellent race directors and great people and are free to run.  We need more people like Sherpa, Matt and Mike to put on these quality fat ass races.  The more fat ass quality races, the less we will be spending on entry fees.   I am not paying 1000 dollars to run badwater, when I can go out there a week later and run it myself with my crew, and not have 200 vehicles buzzing around, with all the chaos that goes with that.  I would much rather run it with my crew, in peace. Be out there with just those people and the desert.  If you are sick and tired of paying so much for JFK, WS etc...put on your own race that same weekend.  :)        

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#87 of 113 Old 12-09-2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherpa John View Post
One thing that I can't stand is that on every forum I decided to share my opinion with.. my opinion isn't what was attacked... I've been personally attacked...


John, one thing that stood out to me with your argument is your comparison with your RD experience(s) with those of WS or JFK (or any of many other established races.)  To compare either of those races (or any of many) to your "race" is disingenuous. You've RD'd how many races? How many of those are around today? Significant differences between what you've done and other long-standing events. Is there a reason why your race is not being held this year?

 

Just a guess on my part but I imagine what you might hear from others is a message to "grow up," which might sound like a personal attack but is intended to mean wait a few more years when you could possibly afford the more expensive ultras. Unfortunately, the cost to enter races is part of life. Can't afford them all.

 

For the record, I'm not telling you to grow up. Rather to wait until you're at the station in life where you could afford the races of your choosing.

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#88 of 113 Old 12-09-2010, 12:46 PM
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I've RD'd one official race which was a 50/100/200 miler. The race used to be in November but is now held in May at the same location and I gave the RD duties to an individual who loves closer to the venue. I still show up on race weekend and do both run and volunteer. Other then that, I hold a monthly Fat Ass 50K in New Hampshire and welcome all to join via my blog. I've discussed with my wife that upon moving to Colorado, I'd love to some day be the RD of a race like leadville, where I'd lower the entry fee through directing the race free of charge.

 

But let me get this straight... So... I get it. If I don't want to pay.. .I shouldn't run the race. Thats fine and I'm living that little tid bit. But... what I don't get is.. why do people feel the need to tell me to grow up or get all worked up? So.. I have an opinion that doesn't match the opinions of all the others... and I'm vocal with my opinion... so now I need to grow up. WHAT?! Why can't I just have an opinion? I respect the opinion of everyone else? Why can't I just have different values and beliefs and that be ok? WHy does there always need to be an insult tacked onto the end? This shows HUGE gaps in tolerance in our sport.

 

I am at a stage in my life where I can afford the races of my choosing. I chose to NOT run western states... I choose NOT to run JFK.

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#89 of 113 Old 12-10-2010, 09:12 AM
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General registration for the Viaduct 100/200 opens on Monday. As of right now, there are 11 open slots leftover from the early registration folks.

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#90 of 113 Old 12-10-2010, 10:32 AM
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I think ultras are like marathons in that there are a few very well known and popular ones that are now very expensive. I think what you are buying is the run, plus the history or popularity. But there are plenty of other ultras, 100milers and others, that are very reasonably priced or of FA variety. Many of these are great, and for those who bristle at the prices, they may be a bettter choice.

 

I love Umstead, and for that I have to deal with the instant online rush or the months on the waiting list. I put up with that because I love the race.  I also love the CCFFA 50k on Cape Cod in the middle of winter. It's free and there is no signup or limit. I can afford to enter Western States, but I chose to avoid the lottery this year. I had mixed feelings on the cost (race plus travel for two, rental car, etc.), versus what I would feel I got out of the experience. But I don't begrudge anyone the right to enter and pay and go. I hope everyone loves it.

 

I did enter the Across the Years lottery and I am going there to run the 72 hour. It's an expense comparable to WSER, but it was something I really wanted to do. I have no idea what the RDs get as compensation, don't care.

 

Years ago, I qualified for the Boston Marathon and was delighted to shell out the $ to stay at a nice hotel in Boston and run the race with its rich history and tradition.  I loved it that year. I went back two other times and it wasn't nearly as great an experience. I don't see me going back unless there are odd circumstances, like a good friend or family member running. It's not worth the expense, it's crowded, and there are plenty of other nice marathons to run if I am so inclined. But I don't begrudge anyone making the choice to go and actually recommend that people do it once.

 

For 2011, rather than the WSER, I am intrigued and may enter the Vol state--entry fee $0, but cost significant because I would do it supported. But something is drawing me to this race.

 

My take away from this discussion is that there are many choices for an ultrarunner. The sport is growing and there are more and more races of all types and prices. Pick some or make your own.

 

Fred in Connecticut

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#91 of 113 Old 12-11-2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherpa John View Post

Which is why I'm not going back... which is why I'll never go back to JFK... which is why I'll never run Bel Monte... etc etc etc...

 

But thanks for echoing the sentiments of the dozens Doug.. I've got it... One thing that I can't stand is that on every forum I decided to share my opinion with.. my opinion isn't what was attacked... I've been personally attacked... much the same way you've done here. If only you could find a way to communicate your opinion without being insulting.. maybe THEN you'll sound intelligent and mature yourself.

 

Why can't people accept the opinions of others WITHOUT making excuses or reasons for why they feel the way they do. "It's ok.. it's only because you're in college and don't have a lot of income." How the **** do you know what I have for income? Why do I need a reason or excuse?

 

There is a difference between opinion and whining and it seems that every in every forum you spit out the same opinion and get the same responses. WWIW I'm not attacking you personally and nor are 99%  of the responses on most of the list. You are expressing you opinion and others are expressing theirs. Seems to me you throw the pebble in the pond and then play wounded pride when other express their "opinion."  Sorry you can't opine in public without getting some feedback and you feel the need to express this every few months. At best, it get old!

 

Frankly I don't know your finances although I seem to recall some claim of poor student.  Whether you are filthy rich or on welfare doesn't make a difference.

 

I enjoy youth and I was at one time, I think young, but your youthful exuberance is just that youthful. I won't say grow up as that is rude. I will suggest that you don't have enough years on the earth nor in the sport to fully understand. There is college education and life education.

 

Yes, we know you have a problem with anyone making money off an ultra race. You must understand that some races take 6 to 9 months to put together. It's a far cry from some chalk to put on a Fat Ass event. I've been involved with both and the hours involved is incredible. 40k for WS may sound like a lot  but  it often comes out to a few dollars an hour and a major drain one's personal life especially families.

 

If you think ultra races are expensive you might want to look at Tri's.

 

I love your zeal with the sport and your  personal dedication to put on races while going to school. I promise a big hug at the next race if you promise to stop yelling fire in the theater. :)

 

Your favorite uncle,
 

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#92 of 113 Old 12-11-2010, 03:56 PM
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diablo_ani_fire.gifokay, enough of this now please. group hugs..?sad5.gif

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#93 of 113 Old 12-11-2010, 05:19 PM
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OK. Hugs to "uncle" pithydoug - I sincerely hope to meet up with him on one of my ultra adventures. smile.gif

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#94 of 113 Old 12-12-2010, 01:05 PM
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I believe MMT offers free entry to two who need the assistance, and many other races would give reduced fee for volunteer work. There are options. It just sucks to see the prices in some race skyrocket in a really short time.


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#95 of 113 Old 12-12-2010, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merigayle View Post

I believe MMT offers free entry to two who need the assistance, and many other races would give reduced fee for volunteer work. There are options. It just sucks to see the prices in some race skyrocket in a really short time.



Yes.. they call it their "Scholarship Program." The first time I ran MMT I was a recipient.

 

I emailed the RD for Leadville at the beginning of 2010 and asked if they had a similar program.. to which I got in a response, "If I gave away free entries, I'd never be able to make enough money to pay myself."

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#96 of 113 Old 12-12-2010, 04:58 PM
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LOL. MMT did TWO "scholarship" entries. Not like they are giving away half the race rolleyes.gif


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#97 of 113 Old 12-12-2010, 08:25 PM
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Right... And here-in lies ny issue with the money grubbers
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#98 of 113 Old 12-20-2010, 04:40 PM
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I hope it's not an idiot thing to do to sign up for a 20 mile trail race in 6 weeks.  I haven't run more than 10 miles/wk since my 50K.   However, I think the rest has done a ton of good and my TOFP is gone.  

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#99 of 113 Old 12-21-2010, 08:00 AM
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I hope it's not an idiot thing to do to sign up for a 20 mile trail race in 6 weeks.  I haven't run more than 10 miles/wk since my 50K.   However, I think the rest has done a ton of good and my TOFP is gone.  


I think you will be fine :)


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#100 of 113 Old 12-21-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
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OK. Hugs to "uncle" pithydoug - I sincerely hope to meet up with him on one of my ultra adventures. smile.gif


If you come east to the  HAT, Bull Run or Vermont in the fall, We can talk about having kids,:)

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