Using the 5/1 Run/Walk Ratio - KickRunners.com
 
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#1 of Old 04-22-2008, 07:12 PM - Thead Starter
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Disregarding hills (since I walk all of them):

1. How strict are you about adhering to this?
2. Do you let terrain dictate at all, i.e., if you're on a nice, easy downhill and it's time to walk for a minute, do you go ahead and finish the hill then change to the walk?
3. Do you do all of your training runs with the 5/1?

I'm going to be participating in my first 50k next month. I think instituting this will be a big help.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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#2 of Old 04-22-2008, 07:14 PM
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depends on the course. A race like the JFK50 where there are 26 miles of flatness, i did a strict 8/2 the first year, and something pretty close this past year. Other races, i walk the hills, run the downs and go 8/2 on the flats, if the flats are not long enough, then i just play it by feel and make sure i do not walk more than a couple minutes. I prefer 8/2 over 5/1 for some reason.

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#3 of Old 04-22-2008, 07:32 PM
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Do people typically start off with a run/walk cycle, or do they do it after an initial run of 5-10 miles, 60 minutes, etc?

Chris
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#4 of Old 04-22-2008, 07:45 PM
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i usually run the first 30-60 minutes to get the legs loose, but if there are substantial hills i may walk them.

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#5 of Old 04-22-2008, 08:21 PM - Thead Starter
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Thanks for your response, Merigayle. An 8/2 sounds like it would allow you to cover greater distances in a shorter period of time while still giving the legs a chance to rest. It definitely makes sense to get some time under your belt to get the body going before transitioning. I'll have to play around with both over the next couple of weeks to see what works best. What I like most about the walking break is it gives me a chance to eat, which I have a bad habit of putting off . . . until it's too late.
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#6 of Old 04-22-2008, 08:28 PM
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You need to practice run/walking in your long runs, because if you are not used to it, it is hard to switch between the two during a race. I always use walk breaks as food breaks Well, not all of them, but you get my drift

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#7 of Old 04-22-2008, 08:38 PM
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I did this in my training for the first six months last year before going to low heart rate training without walks. I remember reading about it quite a bit as a new ultra runner and the concensus seems to be that 1 minute is not enough, that you need at least 2-3 to allow our legs to recover/flush the waste products out. I ran 25, walked 5. Worked for runs up to four hours just fine. I would usually be jonesing for a walk after 10-15 though. That's probably more reasonable. If I were to do it now, I'd probably do 15/3 or so.
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#8 of Old 04-22-2008, 08:47 PM
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I've been trying 15/2 the last couple times out. Seems ok so far but I tend to want to walk before 15 near the end of my run.
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#9 of Old 04-22-2008, 08:53 PM
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Leslie, the race I think you're planning to run rolls for almost all of it's length. Very rarely will it go more than a mile or two without a hill. You might take that into account. Note: No monster hills, just a lot of gentle ones.

2008 race schedule:
June 7, Green River marathon, WA
July 4, Foot Traffic Flat Marathon, OR
July 26, White River 50M
Aug 16, Where's Waldo 100K
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#10 of Old 04-22-2008, 09:12 PM
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To reply a little more: I only used it on the flats. I walked all the ups. If it came time to walk while on the hills I ignored my timer and walked the hills, running down. Don't walk down hill, there's no need. The goal is to lengthen your training runs and allow your legs to recover/spare glycogen to get the distance in. I didn't do it at VT as there were no flats. Hiked the ups, ran everything down. No problem.
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#11 of Old 04-22-2008, 09:12 PM - Thead Starter
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Kate told Karen it's a fairly rolling course. Gentle ones, I can handle. The monsters we climbed (well, monsters to me) at Pirates Cove - ugh!

The whole 31-mile thing keeps creeping into my head and messing with it. Not good considering the run is still a month away. I'm usin' mu "positive thinkin' " early!
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#12 of Old 04-22-2008, 09:39 PM
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It's where I do most of my training. Almost all the hills are gentle, Ranging up to 1/4 or 1/2 mile long and gaining a couple of hundred feet. The surface is quite good, though there might be some muddy patches depending on the weather for the previous 2 weeks.

If it's like last year, the worst part is perhaps confusion. There are multiple distances run at the same time (50K is longest) and the course switches around from one trail to another a few times. Nothing horrible about this, everything should be well marked, but just be careful at junctions. Make sure that not only do you turn, but it is a "50K turn" not just for the 10K people.

Also, in countless places you'll run down a gentle grade into a little side-valley, cross a tiny creek, and head back out on the other side. That means that the bridge over the creek is where you turn hard (from running in to out) and you're going fast. Well, the wood plank bridges can be wet and slick. You find yourself skating sideways as you try to turn. Not awful, but take all of those bridges a little slowly.

Also, they say avoiding mud makes you muddier. Don't make anything but the tiniest effort to go around mud puddles - plow through instead. VERY common to see people trying to tiptoe around everything and fall facefirst into the most bottomless mudhole for miles as a result.

I haven't talked to Wendell and Sarah yet, but since I'm injured and not running right now there's a good chance I'll be at an Aid Station.

2008 race schedule:
June 7, Green River marathon, WA
July 4, Foot Traffic Flat Marathon, OR
July 26, White River 50M
Aug 16, Where's Waldo 100K
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#13 of Old 04-22-2008, 09:46 PM - Thead Starter
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Thanks for the info, Hippo. I really appreciate it. I've learned to pay close attention to the markings for the PCTR runs. Karen will enjoy the mud puddles. She loves running through them! The only problem with my feet getting wet is my blister protection comes off. I'm working on new "treatments" to try and remedy this. I have terrible blister problems with the edges of my big toes and the edges of the balls of my feet. (I think I just hijacked my own thread . . . )
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#14 of Old 04-23-2008, 12:03 AM
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Pete and I did my usual 20/2 run/walk ratio for my last 100K. I've always done that ratio for my ultras of 50 miles or more. It's just long enough to get close to 2 miles of running in and the 2 minutes walking seems not too long nor too short. I usual try to eat something while I walk. I usually start after the first hour of running and continue on until the last 3-5 miles, depending on how I feel. If there's a hill to climb, I skip that walk break. If there's a nice easy downhill I might skip the walk break there, too.

I was on the Forest Park trails 2 weekends ago and although it was a warm day there was still quite a bit of mud. It's been raining a lot since then so I'm sure it hasn't dried up any. No telling what will happen between now and late May. We'll be able to check it out that weekend before the race. Don't worry, all will be well.

Kate
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#15 of Old 04-23-2008, 12:56 AM - Thead Starter
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I like the walk break for eating, too. I think it's going to work really well for me. I just have to quit over thinking the whole thing! Looking forward to finally meeting you, Kate.
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#16 of Old 04-23-2008, 10:58 AM
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If a race has a lot of flat and/or concerns about finishing then by all means practice what you plan to do race day and walk/run the flats

Maybe I choose races with short flat areas but I don't walk any flat areas. I hike the ups and run the downs AND levels. I also do that in training so I'm being specific. In most trail races at least in the NE(I'm not talking about 24/48 hours around a 400 meter track) there isn't that much sustained level where walking saves much energy. I reserve my eating for the ups.

My suggestion for those that have some experience or naturally strong, remove the walk breaks on the levels in training and watch your times drop without falling to pieces. How much one walks vs runs in a race is predicated on strength. This is the same for 10k or marathon but the slowdown is less.

Pound those hills in training and yes, run some of the steep sections that you normally walk in a race to add strength. I have some ups that are 400-500 feet per mile over 2.5 to 5 miles. I prefer to run the entire way or hike the entire way. While fresh I will run the first N laps and then hike the next N laps. I do not like to intermix walking and hiking as it gets to **** easy to walk and negates building strength.

Just some food for thought.
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#17 of Old 04-24-2008, 05:14 PM
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My suggestion would be to take advise from Meri and Sherpa John and Hippo. Too much reading between the lines in the above post.
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#18 of Old 04-24-2008, 07:38 PM
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Between what lines? I though I was fairly direct. Feel free to pick any of those tweeners and ask for more information or in fact disagree. This forum is about discussing the sport, often called dialog.

By the way, the word is advice and after 22 years of Ultra running with 59 finishes and not one DNF there are every few I will take advice from. John and I seem to agree 99% of the time. Meri is rookie and I don't know Hippo. The problem with forums of this nature is one's name and credentials are often hidden.

So ask for clarification or credentials but save the sarcasm.
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#19 of Old 04-24-2008, 08:23 PM
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To each his own my friend, To each his own. By the way a period in no way implies sarcasm.
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#20 of Old 04-24-2008, 08:59 PM - Thead Starter
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Thanks to everyone for their advise and wisdom. I like to obtain all points of view, throw them around in my training, combining them with my own (albeit limited) wisdom and experience, and see which one sticks the best for me.
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#21 of Old 04-26-2008, 08:27 AM
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Not to beat this horse but your original reply which somehow got deleted( I wonder how that happened?) was:

"Chupacabra has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Using the 5/1 Run/Walk Ratio - in the Extreme Running forum of Kickrunners.com.

This thread is located at:
Using the 5/1 Run/Walk Ratio

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by pithydoug)---
If a race has a lot of flat and/or concerns about finishing then by all means practice what you plan to do race day and walk/run the flats My suggestion for those that have some experience or naturally strong, remove the walk breaks on the levels in training and watch your times drop without falling to pieces. How much one walks vs runs in a race is predicated on strength. This is the same for 10k or marathon but the slowdown is less.
---End Quote---
My suggestion would be to take advise from Meri and Sherpa John and not someone who I've never even heard of outside of Kickrunners. Who would you take advise from, Lance Armstrong or some dude who rode a bike in 1969?
***************""

You may want to take note that you can't retrieve Email. Did you get spanked at home for going a bit too far or at least not knowing your audience? Rhetorical. To say the least there was sarcasm in your heart.

Please note, if I have a fault it's for being overly direct, and why pithydoug is my play handle. Now like big boys and girls.... we will move back to running and loving thy neighbor, even naughty boys in Pa.
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#22 of Old 04-26-2008, 11:48 PM
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I'll put in my two cents here for what it's worth. Although a long-term injury is preventing me for training hard at this time I have experimented with run/walk splits. I don't like the 5/1 split very much. One minute is not enough time to lower my heart and breathing rate so I don't feel recovered when it time to start running again. It's also not enough time for me to eat and drink as I prefer to do these while walking. The 15/3 split resolves the eating and drinking issue and allows enough time for my heart rate and breathing to come back to normal. The only problem I have with it is that I have a harder time making the transition back to running after walking for 3 minutes. I have settled on a 10/2 or 8/2 split which is a good compromise for me. Of course I walk at the big uphills and run all the downhills
Dan
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#23 of Old 04-27-2008, 10:53 PM
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Most ultras I've done, the uphills dicate the walk ratio.

A couple years ago, I did a flat 12 hour run on a 1 mile loop. There I used 25/5. One or two minutes was not enough break for me.

Later in the run, starting up after a walk break becomes more painful. Therefore I found running for longer periods helps.
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#24 of Old 04-28-2008, 02:45 PM - Thead Starter
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Oldschool's comments are somewhat along the lines of what I'm finding - that walking for one minute doesn't really give me enough time to get some food in me. I'm usually still working through a singel mouthful when it's time to start running again. Maybe the 8/2 ratio is a better way to go. It's hard to do this on the trails on which I train because of the number of hills we traverse. However, on Fridays I do a 1.5 hour long run on the road (ugh!) and am working on my run/walk during those runs.
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